95% effective against infection? That seems awfully optimistic. I just recently returned from a two week vacation where I was blissfully ignorant of any news especially Covid related but from what I've seen over the last few days breakthrough cases are significantly higher than 5%. Isn't Ontario about 20% breakthrough cases and it seems like the Mayo Clinic is seeing that effectiveness against Delta might be as low as 40% (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21261707v1)
What that seems to be showing is effectiveness is as low as 50% with 1 shot 86% with 2 shots (Moderna) and withb2 shots 90%+ with pifzer.
It's not enough just to get 1 jab you need 2.
I'm pissed only because the shots . Didn't improve my 5g coverage.
95% effective against infection? That seems awfully optimistic. I just recently returned from a two week vacation where I was blissfully ignorant of any news especially Covid related but from what I've seen over the last few days breakthrough cases are significantly higher than 5%. Isn't Ontario about 20% breakthrough cases and it seems like the Mayo Clinic is seeing that effectiveness against Delta might be as low as 40% (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21261707v1)
20% is meaningless unless you know what percentage of the population is vaccinated. From Ontario's numbers today, the cases per 100K was 8.22 in unvaccinated people and 0.99 in fully vaccinated people. That's a reduction of 88%. And the ICU breakdown is 44 unvaccinated vs 2 fully vaccinated; considering about 90% of the senior population and 75% of adults are fully vaccinated, that's a risk reduction of about 98-99%.
As for the Mayo Clinic study, the numbers jump around a ton and there's likely a lot of noise in the data, so I'd be taking Pfizer's July numbers with a grain of salt. Here's the month-by-month breakdown:
March: Moderna = 91%; Pfizer = 89%
April: Moderna = 91%; Pfizer = 88%
May: Moderna = 93%; Pfizer = 83%
June: Moderna = 62%; Pfizer = 82%
July: Moderna = 76%; Pfizer = 42%
So Moderna dropped from 93% to 62% in one month, and then back up to 76% the next month. Obviously it didn't actually do that, it was just noise in the data. Observational studies can always have issues with that because they're much harder to properly randomize compared to clinical trials.
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We can’t overwhelm the health care system, and I forgot to mention under my proposal, entry into the hospital would require proof of double vaccination.
We tend to let it go when posters attack the ideas, but not the poster.
The difference between saying "You're dumb" vs. "Your argument is dumb." The trouble is, when people pile on, they make it personal.
That's at least what we try to adhere to, try our best at least.
I actually think blender meant internet trolls SHOULD be piled on more and this site should be more accepting of personal pilings on. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Going back to being off-topic (or maybe now it's on-topic), it's unfortunate how this pandemic has become so political. The fact that this could have been potentially a globally unifying triumph of science and technology but is now the actual opposite and creating such divisiveness is... just sad. What's worse is that I'm not sure any amount of truth or facts or common sense can change this. I mean, we should be mourning the loss of life and celebrating the fact that there is a means to control this as best we can, and yet, here we are.
Maybe we need an Independence Day level invasion to reunite us all, but I worry even then that some would protest stay at home orders as tyranny and screw everyone else over by leading the aliens to our homes.
I actually think blender meant internet trolls SHOULD be piled on more and this site should be more accepting of personal pilings on. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Going back to being off-topic (or maybe now it's on-topic), it's unfortunate how this pandemic has become so political. The fact that this could have been potentially a globally unifying triumph of science and technology but is now the actual opposite and creating such divisiveness is... just sad. What's worse is that I'm not sure any amount of truth or facts or common sense can change this. I mean, we should be mourning the loss of life and celebrating the fact that there is a means to control this as best we can, and yet, here we are.
Maybe we need an Independence Day level invasion to reunite us all, but I worry even then that some would protest stay at home orders as tyranny and screw everyone else over by leading the aliens to our homes.
It's cuz there will always be Fonzies out there to rebel.
FyI I think you were being being ontopic. This policy is only because of covid and you can't talk about the policy unless you have a open conversation about covid. The policy won't change untill the dynamics change around covid .
It's been over 100 years from the h1n1 pandemic and not much has changed in social response . It's got the same divides ,same arguments Yhere were anti mask rallies and everything. Eventually through more education and a ton of government advertising people came around .Eventually every one got on board. H1n1 only lasted 2 years . It's not going to be that short this time around. When anybody and their dog can present anything as a fact online in there echo chambers and find validation in one's beliefs with out leaving them that just makes everything 100% harder.
It doesn't help when the top anti vaxxers in the world don't really believe in it. It's a financial thing for them. It's been shown with undercover operations. The top speakers in the anti Vax movement are making between 50,000 usd to 100,000 usd per speaking engagement for high profile events and 20,000 for less profile events. That's good business to just go with the crazy. Its basically a Televangelist scam re-worked to fit another narrative.
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-13-2021 at 12:43 AM.
Lots of doctors here I see. From an actual doctor, one of thousands that dispute what so many here are too brainwashed to see.
I’ve been a follower of this forum forever. I’m out. The lack of understanding as to what is at stake here is appalling. To think, so called grown men would cower in fear unless others ingest an experimental vaccine, disgusting. Manage your own health, respect the choices people make for their own medical care. If you can’t handle that, YOU stay home. If you choose to take this vaccine, good for you, I’ll respect your decision, I would ask the same for you to respect mine. I have many reasons as to why I manage my health as I do, none of them are your concern.
One last note. When it becomes mandatory to take whatever the government mandates in order to participate in society that will never go away. You may agree with people being forced to take this vaccine, what about the next or the one after that? Be careful what you wish for.
A side effect of the COVID restrictions was a 99.85% reduction in flu cases. So, for the "it's just the flu" crowd, that gives you some idea of how bad things could have been without all the restrictions.
Yup, the flu got so pissed off it mutated and infected the brains of 25% of the population, it'll be back with "great vengeance and furious anger"
Lots of doctors here I see. From an actual doctor, one of thousands that dispute what so many here are too brainwashed to see.
I’ve been a follower of this forum forever. I’m out. The lack of understanding as to what is at stake here is appalling. To think, so called grown men would cower in fear unless others ingest an experimental vaccine, disgusting. Manage your own health, respect the choices people make for their own medical care. If you can’t handle that, YOU stay home. If you choose to take this vaccine, good for you, I’ll respect your decision, I would ask the same for you to respect mine. I have many reasons as to why I manage my health as I do, none of them are your concern.
One last note. When it becomes mandatory to take whatever the government mandates in order to participate in society that will never go away. You may agree with people being forced to take this vaccine, what about the next or the one after that? Be careful what you wish for.
Again the nazis are not on the rise out to get you.. there's no great tyranny in the government or the private sector following the best medical advice .
Also not a doctor with your advice either. That 'doctor" in the link is a paid personality from various republican organizations who was formally a milatary advisor to trump. Not like the American republican party would stoop that low... cough southern strategy cough.. sorry I coughed there . What I meant to say the party who flipped from being very very liberal to conceiving and using the southern strategy to gain power would never lie like that and use money to fund outright outlandish tactics .
Last edited by combustiblefuel; 08-13-2021 at 02:07 AM.
Lots of doctors here I see. From an actual doctor, one of thousands that dispute what so many here are too brainwashed to see.
I’ve been a follower of this forum forever. I’m out. The lack of understanding as to what is at stake here is appalling. To think, so called grown men would cower in fear unless others ingest an experimental vaccine, disgusting. Manage your own health, respect the choices people make for their own medical care. If you can’t handle that, YOU stay home. If you choose to take this vaccine, good for you, I’ll respect your decision, I would ask the same for you to respect mine. I have many reasons as to why I manage my health as I do, none of them are your concern.
Respectfully, these vaccines went through the proper trials, and we now have over a billion shots and every country's scientists following the data that has come from that.
We started looking into the covid variant in 2002, no human trials until 2020 but lots of research was done into this, not to mention the mRNA vaccine is over 10 years of research and development.
We are not just blindly injecting people with some unknown stuff, we understand well what is in them, how the body reacts, the risks associated (spoiler they are minuscule beyond absurdity.)
Vaccinations are by far the most well-researched and well-understood medical intervention in the history of medical science, we are literally standing on the shoulders of near 100 years of medical science here.
The safety of these things is not in any doubt, we have lost our way becoming a society of humans who stopped trusting in the experts and this is literally causing a pandemic to be much worse than it needed to be and give way for new variants to take hold and spread.
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You’d think the US & CDN governments will ultimately force the sports team’s hands, won’t they?
The Federal Government has not made many decisions regarding COVID, for fear of backlash. They have passed the buck to Provincial and I can't see why they would start now (but that's probably a topic more suited for a political thread).
