[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

Nearly twice as many people dying from a virus we put heavy restrictions and policies in place to protect people from as died from a virus we have zero restrictions and policies regarding isn't a red flag to you? You don't see the issue?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

For starters… you know what you call someone who had their heart or lungs cooked by Covid compromising their long term health and quality of life?

Not dead.

Not to mention people with compromised immune systems, people undergoing cancer treatment and so on.

I don’t understand why this is that hard to comprehend.

People aren’t passionate about mandating vaccines people are passionate about living life as safe and healthy as possible.

Antivaxxers clearly don’t care about other people as much as themselves and their conspiracy theories so they have given people no other choice.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

I would imagine that it has something to do with the fact that without vaccines, the 2021-22 season would have most likely been cancelled outright.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bunk

My anxiety is less about my own personal safety, and much more that 6 months ago when we were starting vaccinations there seemed a light at the end of the tunnel of this nightmare. With variants it is now apparent that getting to anything less than virtually universal vaccination is going to keep us locked in this quagmire of not being able to actually move on with our lives. That is one of the biggest bummers ever.

The unvaccinated by choice, collectively, are responsible for this problem - hence people's anger and frustration. Governments who have yet to quite get there in introducing the types of policies necessary to get us to virtually universal vaccination (with reasonable accommodation, of course) are also responsible. But, people are fed up, are speaking out, and governments are starting to get their heads around it. It seems like the momentum is happening, which gives me hope.

It's not all about me but in this case, I am talking about my own personal safety.

The presence of the unvaccinated allowing the virus to spread, the emergence of variants and the likely waning effectiveness of vaccines all play into this for me.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well actually you said "states could choose not to have such mandates". Which is true, but not the whole truth. They can make the mandate illegal for private businesses.

They can, yes. But the original question was whether states could impose mandates against individuals’ supposed rights. That’s a rights and freedoms issue. The second question is just the opposite, whether they can block municipalities or businesses from doing so. They can. But that was more a state power issue.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

There are people who can't get vaccines because of health conditions. They are 100% being discriminated against.

Vaccinated people can still get infected, and if the symptoms aren't as bad, then great. But if someone shows up to the game with a negative test and somehow infects an vaccinated person, they should be fine. Isn't that the purpose of the vaccine?

What are you even talking about? We shouldn’t have vaccine mandates so people
with health conditions can get infected?

No they aren’t being discriminated against. The purpose of minimizing the virus is for them. If they have legitimate health conditions then every rule has exceptions.

The people with fraudulent health claims can stay away.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

One reason that doesn't get talked about enough is that uncontrolled spread amongst the unvaccinated will result in more hospitalizations and death. That utilizes strained healthcare resources, and makes it harder if someone gets cancer, has a heart attack, breaks a leg, etc to get the treatment they need.

The Delta variant is also proving to be a game changer - it's more severe and more contagious, including in younger people. Add in the fact no one under 12 is eligible, and we're looking at more kids in hospital as well.

Honestly, we're all trying to get through this. The unvaccinated are delaying us getting through this. Ignoring the situation, pretending it's not a big deal, is not going to make it go away any faster.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

God I always hate this argument.

1 . It's not 8000 to 10000 people who die from the flu. It's 2000- 8000 but that's a wide guess as they don't track the numbers that closely. Example. 2002 to 2008 there was only 300 flu deaths.

2. Covid 19 was closer to 20,000 deaths in 2020. Effectively doubling the death rate of the flu + pneumonia.

3. When someone's argument is It's just the flu! Then fine . Then think of it as the flu and that it's now it's death rate and severe sickness as grown 100% . Anytime any disease rate doubles with more severe effects that's a concern .

Vaccines are they way fore ward to controlling it.

Do you know why lead isn't used in gasoline anymore? They found it was damaging people's heath and mental facilities from the burning of it into the air so governments banned it for the health and safety of everyone. Asking people to be vaccinated is no different I reality.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.

I'm sorry but this line really pisses me off.

My parents are older/have 'co-morbidities', but generally are healthy and have lots of life to live. They have young grandchildren. Their grandchildren love them like crazy. They've had over a year of barely spending any time together, so that we can try and get back to normal and spend time together. We want to ensure we all have many more years together.

They're people, not a statistic.

[calf]

https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/...744738305?s=20

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425528973744738305

[Cain]

The pandemic has really exposed how callous and selfish a lot of people can be (speaking generally here). It has been more than a little depressing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

The organization is discriminating against them by not allowing them to attend events. Also, for whatever freedoms and choice are worth these days, people who choose not to get a vaccine but test negative should have the right to attend. People with vaccines can still contract Covid, so if they're not tested they could technically be carrying it whereas the non-vaccinated person who is confirmed negative is definitely not carrying it.

Attending a hockey game is not a right.

Going to a (particular) restaurant or bar is not a right.

You do not have the 'right' to enter another person's residence or business - entrance is an invitation, if if only implied.

Placing restrictions on entry to any private event or place is not a restriction of freedoms.

[14Roman14]

[QUOTE=Cain;7956509]I'd be interested in seeing your source for this (if any). I've done cursory research and it seems extremely obvious that the very very small risk of an adverse vaccine reaction is heavily outweighed by the chance of a similarly severe reaction from contracting covid.


It’s right on the cdc website.
Of course their first line is that they are safe and effective but all the numbers are there. They put them in cases per million so it doesn’t look as bad but not hard to find how many million vaccines administered and times it by that number. Then compare that number to the adverse reactions to other vaccines over the past 20 years. There are huge numbers of people who have had adverse reactions.
Again if anyone feels the way they do I support them either way, but I don’t think people should be segregated if the risk feels higher than the reward for them and society.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Cain

The pandemic has really exposed how callous and selfish a lot of people can be (speaking generally here). It has been more than a little depressing.

This is how I look at it too.

I got vaccinated thinking of others and it seems I expect too much from others in thinking they would repay the favor.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

15,000 Canadians died from Covid in 2020.
The average age was higher than the average life expectancy.
8,000 - 10,000 Canadians die every year from the flu + pneumonia.

I don't understand why everyone is so passionate about mandating vaccines.

You're pulling stats and neglecting the steps necessary to curb further mass infections. The 3 levels of governments - well, mostly the local municipalities, stepped in to mandate COVID restrictions. Unlike the US and India where you're talking about a few hundred 1000's of people dead because there were no leadership to prevent the spread. Every year, flu vaccines are given for free, but the common cold is a different virus that isn't likely going to kill the majority of the people. I don't understand why people would want to risk getting sick in the first place. Why risk something that's going to cause you to be sick or more sick when it doesn't have to be when you can prevent it and then spreading the disease? I'm sure everyone of us growing up feel that we're invincible. Once you get to a certain age, then you'd think differently. You can bring out all the numbers you want, they mean nothing when the virus runs rampant and everyone is mandated to stay inside. If you want freedom, vaccination does provide a peace of mind, a solution to reduce hospitalizations, and to open up things back to normal. No one wants to be sick and no one likes the lockdown (well except for hermits). So, the more people getting vaccinated, the faster our freedom and happiness goes back to normal!

It's funny how we all take freedom and healthcare for granted. Yet, there's a bunch of people who don't take into considerations of others and basically their actions (or inactions) take a burden in our society. Freedom and rights has a limit in democratic society. We're all not all privy to full freedom as we're still bound by rules. So, if you think freedom is free to do what you want, think about the rules and regulations that keep the communities running as normal. The more people defy restrictions and regulations, the more restrictions comes into effect and vice versa.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

How often, across any topic, has the slippery slope argument been proven to be valid?

It essentially works on the premise that humanity is a collection complete idiots that cannot learn from the past and cannot adapt to change and modify trends. That we are helpless against our own stupidity.

If this were in fact the case, then the dystopia that these people are concerned about is an inevitability that awaits in our future, regardless of the (justifiable) actions taken against Covid.

It is nonsense and pure fear-mongering.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by calf

https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/...744738305?s=20

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425528973744738305

I would support this policy. Access to hospitals should be limited to the vaccinated (with reasonable accomodation for those who Cannot be vaccinated.)

Those who choose not to be vaccinated can expect treatment from the same people who gave them the advice not to vaccinate.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by calf

https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/...744738305?s=20

People who could be vaccinated and chose not to be, should be triaged to the end of the line and then billed for their treatment.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cain

Well I guess everything is fine as long as we live with lockdowns periodically and the like. Those numbers do not reflect the sacrifice made to keep them as low as they are.

Yes, and because of all the COVID-related restrictions, last year's flu season was virtually non-existent.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...-bay-1.5369864

By this time of the year, Canada has normally logged an average of more than 43,000 confirmed cases of influenza.

But this year, the Public Health Agency of Canada says there was a total of just 66 confirmed cases as of March 20.

A side effect of the COVID restrictions was a 99.85% reduction in flu cases. So, for the "it's just the flu" crowd, that gives you some idea of how bad things could have been without all the restrictions.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Those who choose not to be vaccinated can expect treatment from the same people who gave them the advice not to vaccinate.

Use some reiki or maybe a nice topical ointment on that COVID.