[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I'm just jumping in on this discussion now and haven't read the whole thread and someone can correct me if I am wrong but vaccines are effective at preventing severe illness and death related to Covid but the vaccine does not provide any guarantee for not getting infected or not transmitting the virus. A negative test result should be just as good as proof of vaccination because a vaccinated person could be infected and spreading at the arena anyways.

The vaccine gives you like 99% immunity from severe illness and something like 95% immunity from not getting it.

An unvaccinated person has a higher chance of carrying and transmitting the virus. That can’t be disputed.

So my original point stands.

[the_only_turek_fan]

To be 100% honest I don’t think the season will start will full capacity.

[The Fonz]

You’d think the US & CDN governments will ultimately force the sports team’s hands, won’t they?

If permitting unvaccinated individuals to the venue, only 30% capacity allowed and social distancing rules in place. If prohibiting unvaccinated individuals to the venue, 100% capacity allowed and social distancing not required. It’d be a way to let a lot of the teams off the hook with certain demographics within their fanbases.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Wow. That was a slog to get through, but I couldn't look away from this thread.

Seems to me there are a couple of questions:
1. Can the Jets/Flames require some form of proof of vaccination for entry?
Notwithstanding the protestation of some, they are private entities and can certainly make these sorts of rules. (Special thanks to GioforPM who did the heavy lifting earlier in the thread regarding many nonsensical Charter arguments).
2. Should the Jets/Flames require some form of proof of vaccination for entry?
Stickier question, but in the end it seems like it is fairly simple question of risk mitigation. Attending an indoor event with 18000 people (screaming for joy for the Flames, hopefully) is a higher risk activity with COVID, so I think it appropriate to look at the scale of possible interventions:
A. No games
B. No fans.
C. Only vaccinated fans
D. All fans, but with masks
E. Free for all

(I realize there are some combinations and permutations for numbers limitations, vax status and masks.)

A is likely outside the control of individual teams and B would be a death blow financially. As Covid is real and is still a health risk, and I think the teams are responsible corporate citizens, I think E would be a very bad decision for the teams. (And potentially a disaster financially if the games were linked to a super-spreader event, necessitating either A or B.)

Masking up is always an alternative, but with the amount of food and drink consumed, I think a pretty poor option. That leaves vaccination as something that I would submit is reasonable given the accessibility of the vaccines (and with very simple rules for legit medical issues or for those under 12 who cannot take the vaccine). It might spurn more vaccinations and as a season ticket holder with small children, would definitely provide some peace of mind to paying customers.

[PepsiFree]

I would think that the prospect of an NHL game becoming a superspreader event probably has to weigh on NHL teams as well. Require vaccinations and the only people you’re pissing off are anti-vaxx-type crazies (as I assume most people who are hesitant, but not for political reasons, are fairly comfortable with the fact that they may not get to do everything a vaccinated person has to do, as they still likely respect the virus). Those types are usually loud, but ultimately just loud idiots, so not a huge loss. Be the source of a super-spreader event, however, and you’re probably going to turn off both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, as infections will likely impact both (though not equally) and people will start to think twice about whether they want to go to the next game.

Of course if Alberta is still not doing any tracing at that point, it might not matter for the Flames and the Oilers. But, if it is traced to a game that would be a really rough PR issue to deal with.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I would think that the prospect of an NHL game becoming a superspreader event probably has to weigh on NHL teams as well. Require vaccinations and the only people you’re pissing off are anti-vaxx-type crazies (as I assume most people who are hesitant, but not for political reasons, are fairly comfortable with the fact that they may not get to do everything a vaccinated person has to do, as they still likely respect the virus). Those types are usually loud, but ultimately just loud idiots, so not a huge loss. Be the source of a super-spreader event, however, and you’re probably going to turn off both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, as infections will likely impact both (though not equally) and people will start to think twice about whether they want to go to the next game.

Of course if Alberta is still not doing any tracing at that point, it might not matter for the Flames and the Oilers. But, if it is traced to a game that would be a really rough PR issue to deal with.

If the teams/venues go with vaccinated only policies maybe they can have two or three special nights throughout the season for the anti-vaxxers.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I think the vaccines are a good thing, I'm vaccinated, they help.
I also believe we should be allowed to question the science that seems to constantly evolving without the piling on that is all to common on here.
Asking questions doesn't make you an anti vaxer or conspiracy theorist, but seems to be treated as such.
Everything isn't black or white, lots of grey.

I agree, if the questions are actually sincere.

But take the poster in this thread who kept insisting a vaccinated person carries as much risk to spread infection as an unvaxxed person.
They were shown numerous articles, links, data sets showing how untrue that is and will still never admit they're wrong or misinformed.

That's not a person asking questions, that's a person refusing to listen to anything that doesn't fit their chosen position.
That sort of person is dangerous & deserves the piling on they're getting.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If the teams/venues go with vaccinated only policies maybe they can have two or three special nights throughout the season for the anti-vaxxers.

Why would arena staff want to work a game filled with a bunch of anti-vaxxers? Who wants to be the one selling beer to hundreds of people who cannot be bothered to get a vaccine for a virus that shutdown the world for a year?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If the teams/venues go with vaccinated only policies maybe they can have two or three special nights throughout the season for the anti-vaxxers.

Imagine the optics behind planning and hosting special super spreader events like that.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If the teams/venues go with vaccinated only policies maybe they can have two or three special nights throughout the season for the anti-vaxxers.

Can you imagine how many white dodge rams with confederate flags would be in the parking lots?

[Buck Murdock]

Fixed

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Why would arena staff want to work a game filled with a bunch of healthy people? Who wants to be the one selling beer to hundreds of people who cannot be bothered to get an untested experimental injection for a virus with a 99.5% survival rate??

[Monahammer]

How can anyone read what has gone on in this thread and still come in and post their stupidity.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Fixed

Oh Eff right off. At least update your complaints from 6 months ago. Read something that isn’t Fox News and infowars and get your god damn head out of the sand.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How can anyone read what has gone on in this thread and still come in and post their stupidity.

Oh that's what stupid people do!

[Two Fivenagame]

Can we ban antivaxxers from CP?

Asking for a friend...

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Fixed

Found the BreitBart guy!

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The vaccine gives you like 99% immunity from severe illness and something like 95% immunity from not getting it.

An unvaccinated person has a higher chance of carrying and transmitting the virus. That can’t be disputed.

So my original point stands.

95% effective against infection? That seems awfully optimistic. I just recently returned from a two week vacation where I was blissfully ignorant of any news especially Covid related but from what I've seen over the last few days breakthrough cases are significantly higher than 5%. Isn't Ontario about 20% breakthrough cases and it seems like the Mayo Clinic is seeing that effectiveness against Delta might be as low as 40% (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21261707v1)

[blender]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I agree, if the questions are actually sincere.

But take the poster in this thread who kept insisting a vaccinated person carries as much risk to spread infection as an unvaxxed person.
They were shown numerous articles, links, data sets showing how untrue that is and will still never admit they're wrong or misinformed.

That's not a person asking questions, that's a person refusing to listen to anything that doesn't fit their chosen position.
That sort of person is dangerous & deserves the piling on they're getting.

One thing that I wish this site had was more tolerance for piling on idiots and their worthless opinions. Seriously. Internet trolls are enabled by the fact that they know they can get away with whatever they want. Let the general population have their way with them and they tend to disappear.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If the teams/venues go with vaccinated only policies maybe they can have two or three special nights throughout the season for the anti-vaxxers.

Not sure if you were serious or joking here, but this cracked me up pretty hard.

Maybe the Flames could do a My Pillow guy bobblehead giveaway?

Youtube Research Appreciation Night?

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by blender

One thing that I wish this site had was more tolerance for piling on idiots and their worthless opinions. Seriously. Internet trolls are enabled by the fact that they know they can get away with whatever they want. Let the general population have their way with them and they tend to disappear.

We tend to let it go when posters attack the ideas, but not the poster.
The difference between saying "You're dumb" vs. "Your argument is dumb." The trouble is, when people pile on, they make it personal.

That's at least what we try to adhere to, try our best at least.