You know, like I get the Don Cherry stuff. It's not completely black and white () and I could see how some extremely reasonable people don't understand the "you people who come here" as being explicitly racist (it's almost an endearing childlike innocence in a way). But this one?
A white man, no less in complete authority, yells at a black player to turn off his n----- music and this isn't a slam dunk case of racism to some? Like what the hell? "Oh no Peters might be the good guy in this situation, he just hates that word sooo much. Somethings fishy because Peters said he apologized so Aliu is lying. Its just the n----- word its not like he said the b word, s word or used the Lord's name in vain. Everyone called music n------ music back in the roaring 2000s. He didn't call him the n---- word he just directed it at him so he doesn't owe the guy an apology. Aliu's just doing this for money. Aliu should have handled it better. Why didn't he say anything ten years ago?" A lot of racist posters who probably don't even believe they are.
This is my favourite one.
The leaps of logic people can make to support their beliefs sure is astounding isn't it?
so why not call out the whole room? He addressed the ONE guy in the room who he felt this word was associated with. How did he know Akim put the music on? The mental backflips we're seeing from people who want to stay on top is really something to watch.
I’m not defending Peters, just providing clarity.
It was reported and confirmed that Aliu was in charge of the music. This is a position everyone in the dressing room is aware of. It’s a thing. Even Brian Burke commented on it being one of the things Dion did in Toronto. Took over the music.
I'm taking issue with the claim that caucasians were never systematically discriminated against and thus reverse racism is a myth. Whether or not you believe the latter to be true, the former is provably and verifiably false. If you want to frame it as white fragility, fine. You don't even know what race I am, so perhaps you're revealing your own prejudice?
You don't have to look in the past, racism against whites in South Africa has risen dramatically in the last decade or so. Up to the point where the ruling party ANC publicly threatened them in speeches.
The Following User Says Thank You to Saqe For This Useful Post:
so why not call out the whole room? He addressed the ONE guy in the room who he felt this word was associated with. How did he know Akim put the music on? The mental backflips we're seeing from people who want to stay on top is really something to watch.
Mental backflips?
Like ####...really, Peters heard ###### and made an assumption it was the black guy putting on everyday?
Yeah, that’s more likely than Peters knowing, because he was there with the team, who was putting the said music on. Peters probably walked around with a blindfold and couldn’t see who plugged their phone into the PA or had it playing in the locker room
__________________
No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
That wasn't the original argument. Don't think anyone was arguing an equivalency.
It wasn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manwiches
One of my Caucasian friend's just brought up a good point.
He had a love for country music, and his minor coach used to come in and and say 'Turn that white boy honky tonk sh*t off!'. I guess that should label him a racist too?
It was reported and confirmed that Aliu was in charge of the music. This is a position everyone in the dressing room is aware of. It’s a thing. Even Brian Burke commented on it being one of the things Dion did in Toronto. Took over the music.
No no no. Peters is such a racist he KNEW it was the blackie!
__________________
No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
So, just so I'm not mistaken... there are 2 largely different "accounts" that have been given of this story in the shreds of Tweets and apologies. Of note: we have only corroborated that an incident happened, and the captain confronted Peters correct?
Akim:
‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’ ... When Peters then called Aliu into his office to talk about it, Aliu said Peters did not apologize. Instead, Peters again expressed his displeasure in Aliu’s choice of music for the dressing room, with Aliu saying Peters said: “You know, I’m just sick of this n----- s---. It’s every day. From now on, we need to play different music.”
So, dropped a horrible word to the dressing room
Doubled down in explaining himself again in this diatribe of gross
Refused to apologize when confronted
Asked for Aliu to be demoted after the fallout
Bill:
The statement was made in a moment of frustration and does not reflect my personal values. After the incident, I was rightfully challenged about my use of language, and I immediately returned to the dressing room to apologize to the team. I have regretted the incident since it happened, and I now also apologize to anyone negatively affected by my words
So dropped a horrible word to the dressing room
Was confronted about it
Apologized to the dressing room
Two wildly different accounts, and in all cases I want to be clear: Bill has done something horrible. But the corroboration has never been "Akim has recounted this perfectly" has it? Just that there was an incident, which Bill does not deny.
If it was the explicit use of the word he was taking umbrage with?
Would I recommenced calling out the use of ###### by saying ‘stop with the ######’? Of course not. But to act like Peters was calling this guy a ######, when in fact Peters was calling out the gratuitous use of the word ###### isn’t fair to me. The two are ENTIRELY different things, and not just semantically.
If Peters found the use of ‘that word’ offensive, or likely much of the other material in the music, he could have chosen other words, yes. But in this case, he chose to use the very same language, to make his point.
Let’s be real, if the music was hip hop without the foul language and ‘######’, does anyone think Peters would have said the word? I highly doubt it. As a man listening to rap, you should be able to appreciate that the language can be incredibly offensive to people, and you might be called out for it. I’d have a lot more respect for someone who could actually say the god damned word that is bothering them.
Side note: there’s probably a higher chance it was the ####ing other guys in the ass part that really set Bill off.
Well as more comes out hopefully things will be a little clearer on exactly what the actual circumstances were.
The timing of all of this is certainly being managed by the NHL and Flames right now considering Peters is still an employee as of this morning. There is no way Peters and his camp just sent this over to Francis without prior consultation at this point. The team and league certainly wanted this out and done with before they left and returned home so the media frenzy would die down somewhat.
totally disagree.
Peters did this on his own, with consultation from his people.
If it was the explicit use of the word he was taking umbrage with?
Would I recommenced calling out the use of ###### by saying ‘stop with the ######’? Of course not. But to act like Peters was calling this guy a ######, when in fact Peters was calling out the gratuitous use of the word ###### isn’t fair to me. The two are ENTIRELY different things, and not just semantically.
If Peters found the use of ‘that word’ offensive, or likely much of the other material in the music, he could have chosen other words, yes. But in this case, he chose to use the very same language, to make his point.
Except that it would make the opposite of his point... that's why this narrative makes no sense (and therefore seems highly unlikely).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC
Let’s be real, if the music was hip hop without the foul language and ‘######’, does anyone think Peters would have said the word? I highly doubt it.
Yes, I think a number of people do think that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC
As a man listening to rap, you should be able to appreciate that the language can be incredibly offensive to people, and you might be called out for it. I’d have a lot more respect for someone who could actually say the god damned word that is bothering them.
So you have gained respect for Bill Peters as a result of this incident?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC
Side note: there’s probably a higher chance it was the ####ing other guys in the ass part that really set Bill off.
If so, and it was references to homosexuality that Peters (or "Bill") found offensive, can you please explain again why Bill would refer to it as n##### music? I'm lost.
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
so looking at Akim's statement of Peter's statement we can see where the log jam is. Someone's not being truthful. Not about the incident itself. But Peter's said he returned to the room and apologized. He also stated that the slur wasn't pointed at an individual.
Akim is basically saying from the sounds of it that the apology didn't happen or that he felt that the Slur was aimed at him personally and not at the music as Peter's is alluding to.
So this is probably going to go on through the weekend now with the NHL involved. I doubt you'll see Peter's behind the Flames bench or any bench ever again, he's done. But now it might become a grinding three way negotiation to make Peters go away and dissapear in a hurry.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I will preface this by saying I understanding why this is taking so long, but I wish this wasn't taking so long. I just want the guy out of the organization.
I too want the same. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way with millions of dollars on the line. I fully expect Peters to fight tooth and nail for every dollar. As most of us would do when our livelihood is on the line.
Would be nice to just have this cloud over the team gone and go back to worrying simply about hockey.
Considering you appear to lack historical context regarding systematic discrimination towards caucasians, I suggest you research the topic so you can properly evaluate the ACLC's opinion on the matter. This appears to be the entire basis of the ACLC's argument, which is easily refuted with a Google search.
I’m somewhat amazed at how confident you are in your google search. Instead of just doing a simple search, perhaps you could read enough to gain the appropriate historical context you claim others lack.
Were these people discriminated against for being white? No. And that’s an extremely big difference. “White people” have never faced systemic discrimination in our culture. “Black people” have. There are also other groups that have faced discrimination based on their religion, or their nationality, but being “white” in our culture has never been a source for meaningful discrimination. Ever.
This historical context should help you properly evaluate the ACLC’s opinion on the matter, as these are facts, not opinions, unlike your misinterpretation of the topic.
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to PepsiFree For This Useful Post:
Still mind blowing that Peters would apologize to the team but not specifically to Aliu. Seems like a pretty obvious thing to do in that circumstance.
I think it was mentioned by Burke last night but the theory is if he does that, he opens himself up to potential lawsuit(s) from Aliu. It will likely happen anyway but the wording of the apology was, in my layman, Gen X non-Boomer view, calculated to limit any potential damage admission would give. I think the apology lines in the letter are of a similar nature with the generic team comment and Aliu's response is laying the groundwork for some sort of suit as well.
It's an ugly situation but if the league comes out with more progressive policies it could eventually be a good thing.
Even if Peters has changed dramatically in 10 years it doesn't matter, he needs to be fired. He has a very public job in an organization that reaches millions of people, there have to be standards that can't be crossed. Especially today with a guy like Trump giving rise to a new white nationalism movement, you simply have to stamp out any kind of racial injustice and provide real consequences, so that everyone in and around the league knows that it will not be tolerated
Could someone please explain to me why it matters how or why or who Peters used the n word? it's all repugnant and racist and should result in your instant termination, walking into a room with or without a black team member and saying 'turn that 'n' music off' should get you fired, it makes no difference who put the music on or whether the word was specifically directed at anyone.
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
So, just so I'm not mistaken... there are 2 largely different "accounts" that have been given of this story in the shreds of Tweets and apologies. Of note: we have only corroborated that an incident happened, and the captain confronted Peters correct?
Akim:
‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’ ... When Peters then called Aliu into his office to talk about it, Aliu said Peters did not apologize. Instead, Peters again expressed his displeasure in Aliu’s choice of music for the dressing room, with Aliu saying Peters said: “You know, I’m just sick of this n----- s---. It’s every day. From now on, we need to play different music.”
So, dropped a horrible word to the dressing room
Doubled down in explaining himself again in this diatribe of gross
Refused to apologize when confronted
Asked for Aliu to be demoted after the fallout
Bill:
The statement was made in a moment of frustration and does not reflect my personal values. After the incident, I was rightfully challenged about my use of language, and I immediately returned to the dressing room to apologize to the team. I have regretted the incident since it happened, and I now also apologize to anyone negatively affected by my words
So dropped a horrible word to the dressing room
Was confronted about it
Apologized to the dressing room
Two wildly different accounts, and in all cases I want to be clear: Bill has done something horrible. But the corroboration has never been "Akim has recounted this perfectly" has it? Just that there was an incident, which Bill does not deny.
This is where I am at also. To VERY different outcomes to there stories.
You don't have to look in the past, racism against whites in South Africa has risen dramatically in the last decade or so. Up to the point where the ruling party ANC publicly threatened them in speeches.
Yes, I hear after the war people were pretty nasty towards the Nazis as well, terrible it is, people should be ashamed
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
) and I could see how some extremely reasonable people don't understand the "you people who come here" as being explicitly racist (it's almost an endearing childlike innocence in a way). But this one?
