Bill Peters' open apology to Treliving. UPD: Aliu responds

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the league is about to slap him down with a big fine he might also NEED that 4.5M

Is there any sort of League fining precedence for abuse/racism, towards team management?

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

On most places on the internet, such as CP, you don't know how old someone is, so you can only judge them on their opinion.


In this usage of the word Boomer:


Bernie Sanders: not a Boomer

Someone rambling about how they preferred an older revision of Minecraft: Boomer

OI! The OG web Minecraft was an absolute Delight.

I am loving the Bees update tho

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Torture

My apologies then, I must have been wrong. I guess it is racist when manwhich's friend's coach attacked country music because it is the music of the systemically disadvantaged Irish-Italian cattle farmers.

It is important to recognize when you are wrong. As a lifelong country and western music fan, my Spotify is filled with songs about Irish-Italian cattle farmers. Irish-Italian cattle farmers are actually the most sung about group in country and western music.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Torture

The Alberta Civil Liberties Research Centre at the University of Calgary is gobbledy####. Yup, cannon7 knows more than them about racism.

Considering you appear to lack historical context regarding systematic discrimination towards caucasians, I suggest you research the topic so you can properly evaluate the ACLC's opinion on the matter. This appears to be the entire basis of the ACLC's argument, which is easily refuted with a Google search.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Torture

My apologies then, I must have been wrong. I guess it is racist when manwhich's friend's coach attacked country music because it is the music of the systemically disadvantaged Irish-Italian cattle farmers.

Honestly, if this "honky tonk white boy hypothetical" is being trotted out (repeatedly) in an attempt to derail some of the interesting and important discussion in this thread, I think we should just ignore it. It is clearly a red herring. We should try to resist the bait (recognizing of course that I am as guilty as anyone of failing to do so).

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Torture

Or even "I don't want to hear rap and hip hop anymore", or "I don't want to hear this #### music anymore".

Lots of ways to get your point across without saying the N word.

Just an aside ...

Fun fact. There is a lot of rap and hip hop music that doesn’t use the N word

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by jmac98

Ok thats what I thought. If he resigns he doesn't get paid. But he also isn't fired, which I believe people often try to avoid if possible.

to be honest, folks don't want to be 'fired with cause'. Outside of that, being terminated from employment, can come with perks like severance, or in this case, perhaps still being paid the salary, depending on how these contracts are structured.

As others have pointed out, the ultimate 'cause for termination' is likely the primary issue at hand right now, especially for an event that occurred a decade ago, while at another organization (ie. let's say you had something stupid, not illegal, on your HR record at the company you worked at 10 years ago, is it fair for your current company to fire you for it, should they become aware).

I'm definitely on the "get him outta here" side of this whole debate, but I also think if he and his lawyers are smart, outside of any fines that the league might impose (which I also can't see happening, maybe a temporary ban or something for a period of time), Peters is likely to receive his fully due compensation from the flames. The flames are basically trying to stay on the legal side of "wrongful dismissal", which could probably be a position his legal team could take.

[PsYcNeT]

Lol Calgary Sun

[nik-]

To the internet for outrage!

[Split98]

^ well that poll result was unexpected

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Short answer: I don't think the spectrum is limited to stupid and malicious. And in any event, such statistics aren't really helpful in analyzing a particular situation.

The fact you don't see the value in how often people say stupid and insensitive crap without thinking things through that hurt others shows me I was correct and you are very clearly too jaded on this subject to be even a little objective. So, I think I will refrain from going back and forth any more on this subject.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Why not say, "Do you mind changing the music"?

If it was the explicit use of the word he was taking umbrage with?

Would I recommenced calling out the use of ###### by saying ‘stop with the ######’? Of course not. But to act like Peters was calling this guy a ######, when in fact Peters was calling out the gratuitous use of the word ###### isn’t fair to me. The two are ENTIRELY different things, and not just semantically.

If Peters found the use of ‘that word’ offensive, or likely much of the other material in the music, he could have chosen other words, yes. But in this case, he chose to use the very same language, to make his point.

Let’s be real, if the music was hip hop without the foul language and ‘######’, does anyone think Peters would have said the word? I highly doubt it. As a man listening to rap, you should be able to appreciate that the language can be incredibly offensive to people, and you might be called out for it. I’d have a lot more respect for someone who could actually say the god damned word that is bothering them.

Side note: there’s probably a higher chance it was the ####ing other guys in the ass part that really set Bill off.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Except the Flames likely have lawyers on staff or on retainer, so it probably wouldn't cost the Flames a penny more than they are already paying in lawyer fees.

A retainer is more like a deposit than anything. It's not free.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Lol the white fragility in this thread holy ####.

I'm taking issue with the claim that caucasians were never systematically discriminated against and thus reverse racism is a myth. Whether or not you believe the latter to be true, the former is provably and verifiably false. If you want to frame it as white fragility, fine. You don't even know what race I am, so perhaps you're revealing your own prejudice?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Considering you appear to lack historical context regarding systematic discrimination towards caucasians, I suggest you research the topic so you can properly evaluate the ACLC's opinion on the matter. This appears to be the entire basis of the ACLC's argument, which is easily refuted with a Google search.

I have not been discriminated against, but I take your point that white groups have been discriminated against in the past. In fact, my family is Ukranian, another group that was discriminated against so I am familiar with the historical context. (https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....ment-in-canada)


The fact that white ethnic groups have been discriminated against in the past does not make "honkey tonk country music" equivalent to referencing "###### music" to a black person. In no world is that a good point. Even if the coach said it to an Irish-Italian cattle farmer.


I think we've gone far enough down this rabbit hole so I'm going to move on.

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Just an aside ...

Fun fact. There is a lot of rap and hip hop music that doesn’t use the N word

Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell records.

[mennoknight]

Originally Posted by 81MC

If it was the explicit use of the word he was taking umbrage with?

Would I recommenced calling out the use of ###### by saying ‘stop with the ######’? Of course not. But to act like Peters was calling this guy a ######, when in fact Peters was calling out the gratuitous use of the word ###### isn’t fair to me. The two are ENTIRELY different things, and not just semantically.

If Peters found the use of ‘that word’ offensive, or likely much of the other material in the music, he could have chosen other words, yes. But in this case, he chose to use the very same language, to make his point.

Let’s be real, if the music was hip hop without the foul language and ‘######’, does anyone think Peters would have said the word? I highly doubt it. As a man listening to rap, you should be able to appreciate that the language can be incredibly offensive to people, and you might be called out for it. I’d have a lot more respect for someone who could actually say the god damned word that is bothering them.

Side note: there’s probably a higher chance it was the ####ing other guys in the ass part that really set Bill off.

so why not call out the whole room? He addressed the ONE guy in the room who he felt this word was associated with. How did he know Akim put the music on? The mental backflips we're seeing from people who want to stay on top is really something to watch.

[Oling_Roachinen]

You know, like I get the Don Cherry stuff. It's not completely black and white () and I could see how some extremely reasonable people don't understand the "you people who come here" as being explicitly racist (it's almost an endearing childlike innocence in a way). But this one?

A white man, no less in complete authority, yells at a black player to turn off his n----- music and this isn't a slam dunk case of racism to some? Like what the hell? "Oh no Peters might be the good guy in this situation, he just hates that word sooo much. Somethings fishy because Peters said he apologized so Aliu is lying. Its just the n----- word its not like he said the b word, s word or used the Lord's name in vain. Everyone called music n------ music back in the roaring 2000s. He didn't call him the n---- word he just directed it at him so he doesn't owe the guy an apology. Aliu's just doing this for money. Aliu should have handled it better. Why didn't he say anything ten years ago?" A lot of racist posters who probably don't even believe they are.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Torture

The fact that white ethnic groups have been discriminated against in the past does not make "honkey tonk country music" equivalent to referencing "###### music" to a black person. Even if the coach said it to an Irish-Italian cattle farmer.

That wasn't the original argument. Don't think anyone was arguing an equivalency.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is important to recognize when you are wrong. As a lifelong country and western music fan, my Spotify is filled with songs about Irish-Italian cattle farmers. Irish-Italian cattle farmers are actually the most sung about group in country and western music.

Your both wrong! This discussion is completely unfair as I am deaf! I think I will just resort to my quiet music thank you! How shall we say, "it is in one eye and out the other!".