Bill Peters' open apology to Treliving. UPD: Aliu responds

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Torture

Or even "I don't want to hear rap and hip hop anymore", or "I don't want to hear this #### music anymore".

Lots of ways to get your point across without saying the N word.

When he is the boss, he can do that!

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the league is about to slap him down with a big fine he might also NEED that 4.5M

I guess that is where things get interesting and probably why lawyers are involved. Can the league fine for an incident that happened in the AHL. I guess it depends on how the AHL/NHL agreements are worded.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, I don't think it can "easily" mean something else. The entire explanation is incoherent. Why would someone who finds the word "N#####" so offensive and upsetting that he has to angrily and publicly ban hip hop music (or at least hip hop music that uses that word) from the dressing room, by berating the only black person in the room (incidentally, the one person who might legitimately be offended or hurt by that word), then needlessly and gratuitously use that same offensive and upsetting word towards the only black person in the room (incidentally, the one person who might legitimately be offended or hurt by that word)? How does that make any sense? Or am I crazy?

I hope I don't come across as extremely jaded on this subject. I have tried to express, several times, sympathy for Bill Peters and the sincere hope that he can put all of this behind him. I do have a black wife and a mixed race young son. Maybe that affects how I look at these things? I suspect it does. In my professional life, I also give advice/litigate workplace issues like this from time to time. That probably affects how I look at these things too.

How can you say it cannot be easily taken as such?

I literally gave you a quote from someone else that started exactly the same way that used the N word and wasn't racist in nature.

I think Peters was stupid when he spoke to Aliu, without question, but I still believe there is a possibility that it was said to Aliu simply because he was the one that chose the music and not because of his race.

As you said you give advice on workplace issues like this, let me ask you in a case where someone says something insensitive to someone else, how often would you estimate that it is someone saying something stupid, rather than malicious? In my experience as someone who also has to deal with such matters, I find most are just tactless stupidity and not intended to be malicious in nature. That said, you still have to punish them accordingly, even when you know it was most likely just stupidity.

[EldrickOnIce]

I think you can also say turn that f###### s### off, if these are the acceptable terms in which to speak in your workplace.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

My guess is they are negotiating a settlement/buyout/severance/whatever you would call it.

Why would Peters accept that?

You can fire him for this but I can't see the contract being void.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Or if he's angry: "Change that ####ing music"

There was a line and crossed it...or practically jumped over it.

Shall we say, abuse of power and authority? This was to a 19 year old who (up to that point probably felt proud to have some responsibility in the room with his teammates). He may have very well felt discouraged and alienated as a person and as hockey player after that one incident.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why would Peters accept that?

You can fire him for this but I can't see the contract being void.

Because if it went to court or an arbitrator he could lose and get nothing. It's exactly the same reason why the Flames would be willing to as well.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I guess that is where things get interesting and probably why lawyers are involved. Can the league fine for an incident that happened in the AHL. I guess it depends on how the AHL/NHL agreements are worded.

The league as a whole could probably vote to punt Bill Peters. I imagine it would be difficult to take the league to court at that point?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Torture

Not really a good point.
My history is a little rough so maybe your Caucasian friend can remind us when white cowboys were systemically discriminated against and disadvantaged?

Irish immigrants were systematically discriminated against: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-I...t#19th_century

As were Italians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-I..._United_States

Originally Posted by Torture

And I'll back it up:

http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

This is post-modernist identity politic nonsense. Fine if you believe it, but only a matter of opinion and not fact.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Irish immigrants were systematically discriminated against: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-I...t#19th_century

As were Italians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-I..._United_States

I still don't know when white cowboys were discriminated against? Or was it the Irish-Italian Cowboys that manwhich's friend was concerned about?

Originally Posted by cannon7

This is post-modernist identity politic gobbledy####. Fine if you believe it, but only a matter of opinion and not fact.

The Alberta Civil Liberties Research Centre at the University of Calgary is gobbledy####. Yup, cannon7 knows more than them about racism.

[Savvy27]

This apology in the room stuff is interesting to me. Going off what Brind'amour said, it seems that Peters was internally censured and changed his behavior so that there were no more incidents of physically assaulting players.

I wonder if being called out on his racist language, Peters reacted similarly and changed his behavior? Obviously, Aliu was not satisfied (and indicates Peters actually repeated his transgression privately), but there do not seem to be any other incidences. I'd like to hear from the captain of that team because the sequence of events seems pretty muddy.

Still mind blowing that Peters would apologize to the team but not specifically to Aliu. Seems like a pretty obvious thing to do in that circumstance.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Also he sent it to Francis.
Trying to manage the narrative and get ahead of things.
Not impressed.
And he also sends it during the Flames game?
Smells rotten.

The timing of all of this is certainly being managed by the NHL and Flames right now considering Peters is still an employee as of this morning. There is no way Peters and his camp just sent this over to Francis without prior consultation at this point. The team and league certainly wanted this out and done with before they left and returned home so the media frenzy would die down somewhat.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

How can you say it cannot be easily taken as such?

... because it is internally inconsistent. It is not cogent. It does not make any sense. If you can provide some explanation for why a person who is so concerned about the offensive power of the word "n#####" would express his concerns about said offensive power of the word "n#####" to the only black person in the room (who might legitimately find the word "n#####" offensive, especially when uttered at him by a white authority figure, by repeatedly and gratuitously uttering the word "n#####", I am all ears. I would love to understand it.

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I literally gave you a quote from someone else that started exactly the same way that used the N word and wasn't racist in nature.

I didn't really find your quote particularly helpful. It included a much more fulsome explanation. I presume that this wasn't a case where your father is white and you are black. Also, your father's quote still suffers from the same internal inconsistency that Bill Peter's remarks suffer from. If he didn't want you to listen to NWA because he finds the word "n#####" offensive or inappropriate, why would he needlessly use that word while communicating his concerns with you? I have no idea. It doesn't help me understand why Bill Peters said what he said at all.

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

As you said you give advice on workplace issues like this, let me ask you in a case where someone says something insensitive to someone else, how often would you estimate that it is someone saying something stupid, rather than malicious? In my experience as someone who also has to deal with such matters, I find most are just tactless stupidity and not intended to be malicious in nature. That said, you still have to punish them accordingly, even when you know it was most likely just stupidity.

Short answer: I don't think the spectrum is limited to stupid and malicious. And in any event, such statistics aren't really helpful in analyzing a particular situation.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Because if it went to court or an arbitrator he could lose and get nothing. It's exactly the same reason why the Flames would be willing to as well.

Be a balance of probabilities then, which would be in Peters favor. Lawyer fees would probably make paying him out in full cheaper.

[nik-]

I will preface this by saying I understanding why this is taking so long, but I wish this wasn't taking so long. I just want the guy out of the organization.

[Aarongavey]

Folks should listen to the latest spittin chicklets broadcast. Bisonnette and Whitney go over why you never hear about these stories until players are out of hockey. Highly unlikely given the culture of hockey that anyone still involved in the game as a player would go after anyone who can ruin their career.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Torture

I still don't know when white cowboys were discriminated against? Or was it the Irish-Italian Cowboys that manwhich's friend was concerned about?

Cowboys are cattle farmers. Are you claiming that cattle farmers were never of Irish/Italian descent? Many Irish/Italian immigrants fled Protestant persecution and settled the West. And yes, they were "white farmers/cowboys".

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Folks should listen to the latest spittin chicklets broadcast. Bisonnette and Whitney go over why you never hear about these stories until players are out of hockey. Highly unlikely given the culture of hockey that anyone still involved in the game as a player would go after anyone who can ruin their career.

But no, you see anyone who has suffered any injustice ever that doesn't speak up about it immediately does so because either a) it's not a big deal or b) it didn't really happen.

Originally Posted by cannon7

Cowboys are cattle farmers. Are you claiming that cattle farmers were never of Irish/Italian descent? Many Irish/Italian immigrants fled Protestant persecution and settled the West. And yes, they were "white farmers/cowboys".

Lol the white fragility in this thread holy ####.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by DJones

Be a balance of probabilities then, which would be in Peters favor. Lawyer fees would probably make paying him out in full cheaper.

Except the Flames likely have lawyers on staff or on retainer, so it probably wouldn't cost the Flames a penny more than they are already paying in lawyer fees.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Cowboys are cattle farmers. Are you claiming that cattle farmers were never of Irish/Italian descent? Many Irish/Italian immigrants fled Protestant persecution and settled the West. And yes, they were "white farmers/cowboys".

My apologies then, I must have been wrong and manwhich's friend brings up a good point. I guess it was racist when his friend's coach attacked country music because it is the music of the systemically disadvantaged Irish-Italian cattle farmers.