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View Poll Results: Was the suspension length
Too leniant 6 1.15%
Just right 133 25.43%
Too severe 384 73.42%
Voters: 523. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-03-2016, 02:20 PM   #301
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Holy mackerel. Thought he'd get suspended, but 20 games?
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:21 PM   #302
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HAHAHAH Calling CP an echo chamber... DO you even know what that term actually means?
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:22 PM   #303
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HAHAHAH Calling CP an echo chamber... DO you even know what that term actually means?
Would hugbox be a more preferable term?
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:22 PM   #304
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I'm in the camp that thinks that Wideman's hit was an accident. I figured 10 games would be the right number. It would show that, yes the NHL saw it as an accident, but still be long enough to send a message to the players that says "Guys, you have to be aware of everyone when you're on the ice."

And seeing as Wideman has been pretty bad at times this year I didn't even care that'd he would be suspended. More play time for someone younger.

But 20 games is far too extreme. It basically says that the NHL believes that Wideman did this on purpose, and damn his past history, reputation and squeeky clean record.

The NHL isn't this hard on blockheads with bad reputations. (Carcillo straight up punched a ref got 6 playoff games)

I feel bad for Wideman. The man got caught in a bad situation that literally could have happened to anyone, and now his reputation is being dragged through the mud. That, in my opinion, isn't fair.
I agree with your opinion that it was an accident. I don't agree that a shorter suspension could have been imposed if the league saw it as an accident - in that case I don't think they could give him any suspension at all.

Why do I think it was an accident? Wideman's history, the mindset that would have him get hit, not react strongly right after, skate slowly to the bench for a change and then suddenly hit an official not even involved in the play at all, the fact he didn't react to the hit (meaning he didn't even know about the linesman going down like that), the little sidestep he took (to me trying to get around), the overhead view, and his statement afterwards.

I acknowledge the rear-view video and the lifting of the hands, though in my mid not anywhere near being the conclusive proof some claim, makes for an arguable case for the opposite conclusion.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:22 PM   #305
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Holy mackerel. Thought he'd get suspended, but 20 games?
didnt you say 25+
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #306
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There are still a ton of flames fans on the main boards at HF, probably within the top 10 most represented teams.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by PsYcNeT View Post
Would hugbox be a more preferable term?
Man most days we can't agree if the sky is blue! CP is most decidedly not about hugs and echos.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #308
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MOD EDIT: Over the line.

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Old 02-03-2016, 02:24 PM   #309
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Is that right?

50.10 (c) For Players that are suspended, either by a Club or by the League, the Player Salary and Bonuses that are not paid to such Players shall not count against a Club's Upper Limit or against the Players' Share for the duration of the suspension, but the Club must have Payroll Room for such Player's Player Salary and Bonuses in order for such Player to be able to return to
Play for the Club.

And if there is relief, is he more desirable to a contender -- cap relief and a player?
Does anyone have a better understanding of how this works? Is it the case that if you trade for him today (assuming no appeal, etc.), you don't have to count him toward the cap ceiling until he's back? If i was a contender i'd take a longer look if, from a cap perspective, i don't "acquire" the player until a couple of weeks after the trade deadline.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:24 PM   #310
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Man most days we can't agree if the sky is blue! CP is most decidedly not about hugs and echos.
Naw. CP has some loud dissenting voices (cough) particularily on non-sport issues, but for the most part the userbase is pretty lockstep when it comes to hockey.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:25 PM   #311
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Would hugbox be a more preferable term?
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:25 PM   #312
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You can't not believe my interpretation. All you can do is disagree with it.

I don't see any way this could be deemed "deliberate with intent to injure". It makes no sense to me, and I can't see how they came to that finding.
Deliberation is practically impossible to prove, and is in fact almost always in these instances determined subjectively from interpretations of the video evidence. The finding that Wideman's actions were deliberate to injure were drawn from the fact that he deliberately hit the official with his stick/hands. Again, I don't expect you to change your opinion about the incident, only I still have a hard time accepting that you see no possibility that the action was deliberate when several posters here have made provided very reasonable explanations for just that.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:26 PM   #313
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20 games is bizarre to me.

If the NHL thinks wideman had some sort of petulant fit and hit an official from behind deliberately with an intent to injure then 20 games is way too light IMO.

If they think it was simply a get of of my way shove gone wrong, 20 games is really heavy.

To me this is a suspension by social media poll. 'And the median answer with 34% of the vote is.... 20 games'
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:26 PM   #314
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Watch the video... Wideman did a complete follow through with his hit. It wasn't malicious which is why 20 games seems absurd. But it was most definitely deliberate. Whether or not he was dazed is only relevant when discussing intent to injure.

Accidental contact would be something like if he skated backwards into the ref just like the ref was skating backwards towards him. Not when a very deliberate looking check was made to the back of a ref.

Honestly I think it would of been 10 games if they did proper concussion protocol after the hit. Even if he was fine it would of helped his argument and they would have had a stronger case.
I have watched the video. Many times.

I also had a similar incident with my own teammate on the weekend. We collided, I extended my arms/followed through in an instinctive, non-deliberate attempt to protect myself.
I didn't deliberately hit him, I instinctively tried to protect myself.

I can agree and see how the 10 could be determined, but don't see how 20 has any basis.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:27 PM   #315
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Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
I can't believe it took 12 years before someone called me a sperg on CP.

Outasite.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:28 PM   #316
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I am not sure about the level of review in these appeals. In regular court, you generally only appeal on points and interpretations of law - the appellate court just has to find that, in their view, the judge was incorrect. Findings of fact are only appealable if they disclose a palpable and overriding error - a completely unreasonable finding (a difference of opinion of the appellate court doesn't = overturning a finding of fact).

If it's the same in this procedure, it's hard to win an appeal of a finding that he acted with intent. He could win an appeal if the finding was "an accident but he acted recklessly" because I think then there would have been an incorrect interpretation of the rulebook. Or he could win a lower penalty if he can show it was unreasonable.

I've seen private arbitration rules which give a lot of scope to an appeal and some with a very narrow scope.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:28 PM   #317
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Ok, I obviously worded it poorly. In the end what I was meaning is I think the majority of posters on here are voting with their hearts and love for the team, not with a truly objective view or what all the evidence shows. The fact that the poll here is such a runaway of too many games and the huge defence of the players actions compared to the views of the rest of the hockey world seem to validate my point.
I highly doubt the poll is a runaway because people are Flames fans.

Why is it so hard to believe that people actually think the suspension is too long because of their knowledge of hockey along with their opinion of the event in question? Just because people think it's too harsh doesn't mean they are saying it should be 0 games and they are blinded because a Flames player is involved.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:29 PM   #318
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not sure how a independent arbitrator doesn't reduce this based on past suspensions...what for the actual outcome I guess

arguing about 20 games that may or may not be the final number seems futile
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:30 PM   #319
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I never claimed I knew how Wideman was or wasn't feeling, he stated how he was feeling and I gave an opinion on it. That is what people do moron. Don't twist things around and the your a cop scary thing is a pos thing to bring into this. This is a hockey message board where we debate things, it has nothing to do with how I go about my actual job or have anything to do with it. I don't care if this post lands me an infraction, what you did there makes you an a-hole.
How many posts in this thread did you have that insinuated you have knowledge what someone else felt or thought or would think? And then when called on it, fly off the handle with anger and insults? You seemingly thinking you can conclude what people think or knowing how they would react seems very much on topic with what you've been doing to the tune of several posts a page.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:30 PM   #320
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I tried to vote and it said i already did. But the only one I voted in was the very first version (suspension or no suspension).
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