Whether Bill Peters is, or is not a racist is not in question. There was a person who was hurt and humiliated by Bill Peters remarks. Not sure why some need to minimize and add blame to the person who was humiliated in front of his peers and in his own words hurt by the needless comments.
I am not sure who you are suggesting is minimizing anything or adding blame to Aliu, but you can always take it up with THN
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TheHockeyNews.com is publishing his story is neither to indict nor support Peters, but an attempt to identify the complexities of this thorny issue
What happens if he voluntarily steps down? Thats kind of where I figured this would go, being in that resigning rather than 'getting fired' is more favourable to the accused in these situations for their own future, no?
What happens if he voluntarily steps down? Thats kind of where I figured this would go, being in that resigning rather than 'getting fired' is more favourable to the accused in these situations for their own future, no?
If he resigns he forfeits all monies owed to him. I'm guessing that if fired the Flames would have to pay him all monies owed to him. So, I suspect that they will come to a mutual agreement in which he gets some money, but not all.
What happens if he voluntarily steps down? Thats kind of where I figured this would go, being in that resigning rather than 'getting fired' is more favourable to the accused in these situations for their own future, no?
And yes, I believe it is absolutely a possibility that is how it was intended. But just because people intend something one way, doesn't mean others take it that way.
I am not saying Peters isn't racist, nor will I say he is. I'm saying with 1 quote that can easily mean something different than how Aliu took it, it's not enough information to state he is a racist.
I'm not sure what your background is, or what you have experienced in your lifetime, but you do come off across as extremely jaded on this subject.
Well, I don't think it can "easily" mean something else. The entire explanation is incoherent. Why would someone who finds the word "N#####" so offensive and upsetting that he has to angrily and publicly ban hip hop music (or at least hip hop music that uses that word) from the dressing room, by berating the only black person in the room (incidentally, the one person who might legitimately be offended or hurt by that word), then needlessly and gratuitously use that same offensive and upsetting word towards the only black person in the room (incidentally, the one person who might legitimately be offended or hurt by that word)? How does that make any sense? Or am I crazy?
I hope I don't come across as extremely jaded on this subject. I have tried to express, several times, sympathy for Bill Peters and the sincere hope that he can put all of this behind him. I do have a black wife and a mixed race young son. Maybe that affects how I look at these things? I suspect it does. In my professional life, I also give advice/litigate workplace issues like this from time to time. That probably affects how I look at these things too.
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‘Hey Akim, I’m sick of you playing that n----- s---,’ ” Aliu told TSN, with Peters, who was then the Ice Hogs head coach, referring to Aliu’s selection of hip-hop music. “He said ‘I’m sick of hearing this n-----s f------ other n-----s in the ass stuff.’ ... When Peters then called Aliu into his office to talk about it, Aliu said Peters did not apologize. Instead, Peters again expressed his displeasure in Aliu’s choice of music for the dressing room, with Aliu saying Peters said: “You know, I’m just sick of this n----- s---. It’s every day. From now on, we need to play different music.”
If this is true, then I reallyyyy don't think this deserves a public shaming and firing 9 years later. If what I said above is true, Peters was clear he was sick of hearing that word used like that.
As with any art, you take it wholly. If someone saying the very words of the song your listening to is some sort of abuse, you're missing the point.
Maybe the best courSE would be sensitivity training - why artists use the word, how's it been considered an act of rebellion and strength by some in the hip hop community, yada yada.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
Are you saying that racism isn't a social power dynamic? What is your definition of racism?
for ease of simplicity, being a dick to someone because they are a different race than you
dont get me wrong, i am progressive and everything, but this always rubbed me the wrong way. if a bunch of people of x race beat up someone of y race because of their race, is that not racism, regardless of what color either party is?
The conversation really has changed in this thread from yesterday.
Who released the "it's not racism" brigade?
Here's a good read:
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Individual Racism refers to an individual's racist assumptions, beliefs or behaviours and is "a form of racial discrimination that stems from conscious and unconscious, personal prejudice" (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 329). Individual Racism is connected to/learned from broader socio-economic histories and processes and is supported and reinforced by systemic racism.
Because we live in such a culture of individualism (and with the privilege of freedom of speech), some people argue that their statements/ideas are not racist because they are just "personal opinion." Here, it is important to point out how individualism functions to erase hierarchies of power, and to connect unrecognized personal ideologies to larger racial or systemic ones. (That is, individualism can be used as a defensive reaction.) This is why it is crucial to understand systemic racism and how it operates.
Systemic Racism includes the policies and practices entrenched in established institutions, which result in the exclusion or promotion of designated groups. It differs from overt discrimination in that no individual intent is necessary. (Toronto Mayor's Committee on Community and Race Relations. Race Relations: Myths and Facts)
It manifests itself in two ways:
institutional racism: racial discrimination that derives from individuals carrying out the dictates of others who are prejudiced or of a prejudiced society
structural racism: inequalities rooted in the system-wide operation of a society that excludes substantial numbers of members of particular groups from significant participation in major social institutions. (Henry & Tator, 2006, p. 352)
Some forms of systemic racism may be more explicit or easier (for some) to identify than others: the Indian Residential School System in Canada; Jim Crow Laws in the US; the exclusion of African-American golfers from elite, private golf courses in the US; the way that "universal suffrage" did not include Indigenous North American women (nor did Indigenous men receive the vote until 1960, unless they gave up their status/identity as Indigenous).
Some Canadian examples of systemic racism include: the 1885 Head Tax, the 1923 Exclusion Act, the 1897 Female Refugee Act, passed in Ontario, which criminalized 'immoral' and 'incorrigible' acts conducted by women if they were found to be pregnant out of wedlock or drunk in public.
Other forms or manifestations of systemic racism may not be as readily obvious to some, usually those privileged by the system.
Fortunately, individuals can be anti-racist within, and despite, systems and institutions that are systemically racist.
for the record i definitely think what peters said was racist, my comment was pretty tangential and not relating to bill peters lawyers' non-apology, we can just ignore it
I am wondering if the league is going to step in and just punt Peters from the NHL. Maybe that could help clear up any legal matter with the Flames and if Peters wants to sue for wrongful dismissal, he would have to go up against the entire league.
They mentioned last night on the SN panel that the commissioner has almost unlimited power in this area.
It could help the Flames move on with their season and let the NHL lawyers deal with it.
If this is true, then I reallyyyy don't think this deserves a public shaming and firing 9 years later. If what I said above is true, Peters was clear he was sick of hearing that word used like that.
As with any art, you take it wholly. If someone saying the very words of the song your listening to is some sort of abuse, you're missing the point.
Maybe the best courSE would be sensitivity training - why artists use the word, how's it been considered an act of rebellion and strength by some in the hip hop community, yada yada.
Why not say, "Do you mind changing the music"?
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Racism being amplified by a power structure doesn't mean that power is a requirement for racism.
Perhaps not. But it certainly makes the effects much more harmful. And so, by any measure, the "white coach walks into dressing room full of white people and says "white boy honky tonk music" to said white people" story a complete red herring distraction in any discussion regarding Bill Peters and Akim Aliu.
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