2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In hindsight the GM had time and space with all the expiring contracts this summer. He chose to bring in 4 vets so if he's in a bind now (only he could tell you if he is or not) then it's his own doing.

Nothing wrong with having a plan B in case the kids could not make the jump. Now that we know they are there he needs to make room for them.

The players people want to get rid of are still assets so why not try to get something for them. With that being the case opening day is the worst time to trade. There will more of a market once some games are underway and teams get injuries or find that when play goes to the next level with the season starting that some younger players can't make the transition (which could also happen here).

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

After listening to Trevling state for months that his firm belief is that a player can't over season/ripen in the AHL, I'm shocked that so many are shocked that he thinks Baertschi, Ferland, Jooris, etc can't spend at least the start of the season down there.

This. The Flames are going to be a franchise where most prospects spend 2-3 seasons in the AHL. Get used to it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How anyone can "sour" on Sven based on one quote is ridiculous.

It isn't just one quote. His performance last year hurt him too.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How anyone can "sour" on Sven based on one quote is ridiculous.

He didn't say that after just one quote. Last year we talked about his feelings too. This isn't new. I think he has a valid point.

Sven should be saying that I am going to be the best player in Addy and get back up to Calgary as soon as he can. Instead he is pouting and saying he is confused and possibly sad. At this point, it is in his hands whether he becomes apart of the flames team and a major piece or someone who is always on the cusp. He is still young, I am not sour on him but he better start pumping his own tires, he can't count on others for confidence.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

It isn't just one quote. His performance last year hurt him too.

I explained in my original post why expecting great performances out of constant degradation from management, coaches, and fans is unfair.

Nobody has Flames has received more criticism and less praise than he has over the last year.

Now when he plays in Adirondack, fans will be going for his throat when he struggles off the start.

And he will struggle off the start. He's human.

[DoubleF]

I was very confused when watching Baertschi this year. He didn't look like Baertschi style wise, size wise and movement wise. Many praised his game in the preseason whereas I was confused as I felt he looked a bit lost and wasn't really a difference maker. IMO, he actually looked better in some of last year's games.

In my opinion, his game is messed up (not sure whether to blame the training he's been given or emotional turmoil). He seems like he's thinking too hard what to do and fighting his instincts and at times almost panicking on the ice when something didn't pan out the way he expected it. I guess it's good it's a new year with a new coach in Addy. I really hope Huska focuses on clearing Sven's mind to help him make the tools and style his (Sven's) own and play more naturally and instinctively rather than what I felt what Sven was doing was robotic and second guessing everything he did. IMO, physically and tools wise, Sven is ready. However, his mind seems to be all mucked up and needs to be unpacked. I don't think he needs a year of seasoning. A few months should be enough.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This. The Flames are going to be a franchise where most prospects spend 2-3 seasons in the AHL. Get used to it.

Not necessarily saying that it is the case, but could that lead to prospects not wanting to play/sign with the Flames? Do we even want to find out?

[Rerun]

The Flames roster as of this morning... (hope I didn't leave anyone out)

1 MIKAEL BACKLUND C
2 SAM BENNETT C
3 BRANDON BOLLIG L
4 LANCE BOUMA C
5 PAUL BYRON C
6 JOE COLBORNE C
7 JOHNNY GAUDREAU L
8 CURTIS GLENCROSS L
9 MARKUS GRANLUND C
10 JIRI HUDLER C
11 DAVID JONES R
12 BRIAN MCGRATTAN R
13 SEAN MONAHAN C
14 MASON RAYMOND L
15 DEVIN SETOGUCHI R
16 MATT STAJAN C
17 TJ BRODIE D
18 DERYK ENGELLAND D
19 MARK GIORDANO D
20 COREY POTTER D
21 KRIS RUSSELL D
22 LADISLAV SMID D
23 DENNIS WIDEMAN D
24 RAPHAEL DIAZ D (PTO - NO CONTRACT)
25 JONAS HILLER G
26 KARRI RAMO G

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not necessarily saying that it is the case, but could that lead to prospects not wanting to play/sign with the Flames? Do we even want to find out?

If there's a steady progression through the pipeline it should be ok. If there's a perception that prospects are kept down unnecessarily then it's more of a concern. But really, once they are prospects they don't have much choice until they are UFAs

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not necessarily saying that it is the case, but could that lead to prospects not wanting to play/sign with the Flames? Do we even want to find out?

Hypothetically a maybe. But with Treliving firm in his position on this matter, it leaves you with one of two options: (1) accept it as the way the Flames are going to develop prospects and give it a couple years to see how many players graduate or (2) call for the head of the GM who has been on the job for less than a year hired by a someone who is to be the long term solution to hockey operations stability. I'm going to go with the former.

It's Treliving's first draft, first camp, first preseason, etc. Let's see how the first season (or more) goes before we start worrying about prospects being unhappy with the Flames development strategy.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Rerun

The Flames roster as of this morning... (hope I didn't leave anyone out)

1 MIKAEL BACKLUND C
2 SAM BENNETT C
3 BRANDON BOLLIG L
4 LANCE BOUMA C
5 PAUL BYRON C
6 JOE COLBORNE C
7 JOHNNY GAUDREAU L
8 CURTIS GLENCROSS L
9 MARKUS GRANLUND C
10 JIRI HUDLER C
11 DAVID JONES R
12 BRIAN MCGRATTAN R
13 SEAN MONAHAN C
14 MASON RAYMOND L
15 DEVIN SETOGUCHI R
16 MATT STAJAN C
17 TJ BRODIE D
18 DERYK ENGELLAND D
19 MARK GIORDANO D
20 COREY POTTER D
21 KRIS RUSSELL D
22 LADISLAV SMID D
23 DENNIS WIDEMAN D
24 JONAS HILLER G
25 KARRI RAMO G

I don't believe you did, but of note Diaz is still with the team on his PTO. I think.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This. The Flames are going to be a franchise where most prospects spend 2-3 seasons in the AHL. Get used to it.

Are you prepare to get used to the idea of players not wanting to come to Calgary? Top draft picks have expectations of making the NHL quicker than that and cashing in. If agents see this behavior they may encourage their players to not show interest in Calgary at the draft a la Shinkaruk. I could see some agents looking at this as a mechanism to drag salaries and keep players from getting opportunity to earn the big bridge contract like the Oilers give out like candy. Agents can have a lot of sway over players and they only get paid when the player gets paid. Teams that don't pay, or have restrictive practices may have agents encourage their players to show little to no interest in the certain teams. I would hate to see Calgary turn into one of those teams.

[saillias]

The Flames were absolutely perceived that way in the past which I think the org finally noticed after Erixongate.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by New Era

Are you prepare to get used to the idea of players not wanting to come to Calgary? Top draft picks have expectations of making the NHL quicker than that and cashing in. If agents see this behavior they may encourage their players to not show interest in Calgary at the draft a la Shinkaruk. I could see some agents looking at this as a mechanism to drag salaries and keep players from getting opportunity to earn the big bridge contract like the Oilers give out like candy. Agents can have a lot of sway over players and they only get paid when the player gets paid. Teams that don't pay, or have restrictive practices may have agents encourage their players to show little to no interest in the certain teams. I would hate to see Calgary turn into one of those teams.

The fact that Monahan made the NHL last year as an 18 year old, and Gaudreau is starting with the team this year (with 0 AHL games played) kind of proves this whole post wrong. If players prove they are ready, they will make the team. If not, they won't be rushed. Which is exactly how it should be.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by codynw

The fact that Monahan made the NHL last year as an 18 year old, and Gaudreau is starting with the team this year (with 0 AHL games played) kind of proves this whole post wrong. If players prove they are ready, they will make the team. If not, they won't be rushed. Which is exactly how it should be.

Nm

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Matty81

The kid has got to be ready to take Glencross's spot when he is traded or leaves, though I understand his frustration being passed by gaudreau so quickly.

If the flames re-sign Glencross long term, I'd understand him asking for a trade.

Why? If he wants to be a top 6 winger - earn it.

Glencross can be bumped to the 3rd line.

I want players that want to be a difference maker, guys that want to add to the team. Not guys that think the team should make a spot available for them.

(not saying Baertschi isn't that, just saying that if he did react as you suggest, then good riddance)

[CsInMyBlood]

I do feel for Sven, the guy can't quite get a break in his personal career (other than in his ribs at the worlds this year) since coming up and scoring 3 goals in 5 games. Also really sucks that his birthday had to be the day that he gets sent down.

That said, I have no doubts that he will work his way back onto this team this year. I watched every preseason game and paid very close attention to Baertschi. He had a solid camp to be sure. Finishing every check, backchecking hard, coming all the way behind his own net to assist our d men, making that pass to get out of the zone. I am impressed with the growth of his game.

It is obvious to me he was definitely keying on the defensive and physical parts of the game, trying to show the brass that there was no question that he could play in all three zones after being called out by Burke. Mission accomplished there. He also showed flashes of his read on the game and high end passing.

For those in this thread that keep saying he didn't have a good camp, Hartley had high praise for Sven last week (Friday?) on the Fan960. Hartley said he could have easily had four goals in camp if not for big saves. Talked about his playmaking. Also talked about how he was stronger this camp and worked very hard over the summer to come in so well conditioned. I kind of wish he would have had another game on Saturday to show his stuff, but it's obvious the Flames had already made up their mind that he was starting the season in the AHL.

He had a better camp than many that are going to start in Calgary but the thing with Sven is he is young, can benefit from starting in Addy and if he plays like he did in camp, he will be one of the first callups if one of our skilled guys get hurt. You know Jones will get hurt. You know Glencross will get hurt. You know Raymond will get hurt. You know Setoguchi will play HIMSELF off the roster.

The opportunity will come this year for Sven.

As far as the people saying Sven is going to sulk, feels entitled, is emotionally weak, etc. Just stop. If he wasn't upset with the decision then there would be something wrong. He worked hard to do what Burke called him out on and he still fell short. Of course he is going to be disappointed. Hopefully this puts a big chip on his shoulder and he rips it up in Addy to prove sending him down was a mistake.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by codynw

The fact that Monahan made the NHL last year as an 18 year old, and Gaudreau is starting with the team this year (with 0 AHL games played) kind of proves this whole post wrong. If players prove they are ready, they will make the team. If not, they won't be rushed. Which is exactly how it should be.

Well, some may look at it differently. The Flames 2009 top pick held a gun to the head of the team, rightly or wrongly or on bad advice, and wanted nothing to do with the team. The 2011 pick is having some challenges after coming to the team. Some might view that as being exactly why Erixson avoided the team. You may want to view it in a vacuum, but player agents don't. They look at trends and the earning potential of their clients. Holding a player back in the minors hurts their earning potential and is a situation to be avoided.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, some may look at it differently. The Flames 2009 top pick held a gun to the head of the team, rightly or wrongly or on bad advice, and wanted nothing to do with the team. The 2011 pick is having some challenges after coming to the team. Some might view that as being exactly why Erixson avoided the team. You may want to view it in a vacuum, but player agents don't. They look at trends and the earning potential of their clients. Holding a player back in the minors hurts their earning potential and is a situation to be avoided.

Well I guess Detroit's in for a world of hurt then. Any year now. For sure.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Are you prepare to get used to the idea of players not wanting to come to Calgary? Top draft picks have expectations of making the NHL quicker than that and cashing in. If agents see this behavior they may encourage their players to not show interest in Calgary at the draft a la Shinkaruk. I could see some agents looking at this as a mechanism to drag salaries and keep players from getting opportunity to earn the big bridge contract like the Oilers give out like candy. Agents can have a lot of sway over players and they only get paid when the player gets paid. Teams that don't pay, or have restrictive practices may have agents encourage their players to show little to no interest in the certain teams. I would hate to see Calgary turn into one of those teams.

I can't say the following sentence enough when it comes to this situation: We do not want any of these selfish players ever being a part of this team.