2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

This has got to be one of the worst posts I've ever seen on CP...

No offence, but this type of post is in the same echelon you speak of. Elaborating and creating a conversation, or generating respect for your stance may be preferable.

CP isn't the TSN comment section.

I see both sides. Baertschi was given guidelines last year, sucked it up and did what he thought was asked of him. The whole public given vs earned thing and reclamation projects like Setoguchi that underwhelmed in camp must be off putting. Management should be scrutinized. Having said that, he put up one point in 5 games. If the roster players are lousy and Sven can keep focus and demonstrate that he should be up, he will. Hopefully

[Cole436]

We all do need to calm down and take a breathe here.

We l knew that there was only one spot available on the team for a rookie, and that was a top six LW slot. In the end, Johnny out competed Sven for that spot. That's it.

David Jones has played two preseason games and he looked pretty damn good in one of them. Seto is probably on a short leash, but unless he stopped skating in the middle of a game, he was signed to be part of the team at the NHL level.

It's too bad what happened to Sven, but you can be sure that if neither of them are performing, Sven will get an opportunity sooner rather than later.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Hey, at least it's a good player getting sent down that people are getting upset about and not Dustin Boyd being put on waivers. That's a good sign, right?

Let's talk about Johnny for a bit:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...038/story.html

Thank you, MissTeeks, for posting this fantastic piece.

Johnson has a tendency to lay it on thick, overwrite, and turn sports into melodrama, but I have to give him credit here—this is a great story.

Oh, and I also quite appreciated this bit of backstory on the Gaudreaus' decision for Johnny to sign last spring:

Originally Posted by George Johnson

...conjecture that the reason he held out on signing in Calgary was to flee the Flames left the Gaudreaus slightly mystified.

"Never once in our family did we ever, ever — not once — discuss that," says the patriarch [Guy Gaudreau] firmly. "Never. That’s not our family. I was born and brought up on the Canadian border. So I know hockey up there is life. I understand that. If someone offers you an NHL contact, you go play hockey. That’s how people think. But for us, his education came first, even if a lot of people didn’t believe it at the time. I think he understands how important that degree is to his mother and I."

[Wastedyouth]

Neidereiter and Johansen. Two very modern examples of why giving up on Baertschi after he got sent down, is a bad idea. Baertschi was better than either of them in Junior.

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Neidereiter and Johansen. Two very modern examples of why giving up on Baertschi after he got sent down, is a bad idea. Baertschi was better than either of them in Junior.

He was drafted quite a bit lower than both those guys though

[FireGilbert]

I'm a big Baertschi fan but can understand why he was sent down. There are too many LWs ahead of him on the depth chart. He will likely be the first call up if there is an injury and hopefully Glencross will be traded at the deadline opening up a permanent spot for Sven.

Jooris vs Setoguchi on RW is a different story. It bugs me that Setoguchi is only on the team because of playing well years ago and having a one way deal. It seems like management is throwing a hailmary that he will somehow drastically improve. Setoguchi is nothing more than RW depth for the Flames and he should be filling that role in the AHL instead of taking an NHL spot from a more deserving player.

[Caged Great]

One of the problems Baertschi faced during the preseason was that he seemed to overcompensate. He was very much better defensively, however, he lost his offensive abilities as he seemed to be trying not to make mistakes. The last game here against the Jets, the only time I noticed him in the offensive zone was when he fell over his own skates and into the boards twice.

I can understand why he was at a loss, he did get better defensively, but he also is not supposed to be a fully defensive forward. I can understand why they sent him down as well because he needs to be more balanced overall. If he continues to work on his overall game, it'll be better for him in the long run.

It's just frustrating for him because he is trying.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

He was drafted quite a bit lower than both those guys though

How does this relate to what I said?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

One of the problems Baertschi faced during the preseason was that he seemed to overcompensate. He was very much better defensively, however, he lost his offensive abilities as he seemed to be trying not to make mistakes. The last game here against the Jets, the only time I noticed him in the offensive zone was when he fell over his own skates and into the boards twice.

I can understand why he was at a loss, he did get better defensively, but he also is not supposed to be a fully defensive forward. I can understand why they sent him down as well because he needs to be more balanced overall. If he continues to work on his overall game, it'll be better for him in the long run.

It's just frustrating for him because he is trying.

The thing is, better players than he have had to go through situations like this. Yes, it sucks as a fan looking at it from our fan perspective. But if this demotion busted his career, it wasn't going to be much of a career in the first place.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

The thing is, better players than he have had to go through situations like this. Yes, it sucks as a fan looking at it from our fan perspective. But if this demotion busted his career, it wasn't going to be much of a career in the first place.

I definitely agree with you there. He's only 21, it's not a big deal as long as he continues to improve on the farm. He has all the skill necessary to be a quality top 6er, he just needs to elevate himself there.

[Matty81]

The kid has got to be ready to take Glencross's spot when he is traded or leaves, though I understand his frustration being passed by gaudreau so quickly.

If the flames re-sign Glencross long term, I'd understand him asking for a trade.

[Righteous1]

Sven will be back up with the club, he seemed to struggle with his demotion last season. Hopefully this year with a better team iced in the dub, he can step it up and be called up.

[Poe969]

maybe sven was sent down just to see how he'd handle being sent down. You'd have to think he's going to be one of if not the first call up. We're bound to suffer injuries and/or slumps that warrant a player being replaced.

Get off the ledge people.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Baertschi's comments should be of concern. He's a player with other options. Too many people think that the NHL dream is all that motivates these players. If that dream doesn't seem possible, through mismanagement or over-management of the player, then the player may take that to mean his dream is not achievable, but making money elsewhere is. Baertschi, as a Swiss national, can make a boatload of cash back home, and probably play the game he wants to play. Baertschi's comments about making the team soon give me reason to think this may be in the back of his mind. The Flames really need to guard against allowing this flight risk to manifest. Not just because they could lose Baertschi, but because it would be a pretty big black eye on the organization and show other prospects there are ways to get out of the system. We dodged a bullet on the Tim Erixson front so it would not be good to see another high draft pick follow a similar route.

A name that was dropped that everyone should consider is Kyle Turris. He went through the same think with Phoenix, where Treliving learned his craft, and got so fed up with it he demanded a trade. That is where the fine line of asset management is crossed. I hope Treliving learned something from that because Phoenix lost a big part of their future when that deal happened. You have to recognize these players have more options than they have had in the past. The NHL dream is the only thing that allows you to, as the player might see it, hold them hostage in the minors and pay them scraps compared to what their NHL salaries would be. The game has changed, and because of the free agency system entrenched in the CBA, the expectations of players has changed as well. The Flames need to keep this in mind and be careful how they manage player expectations and develop their players.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

This thread makes me sad for CP. Embarassing.

The two best rookie forwards at camp are still with the team...Gaudreau and Bennett. So I guess the "earned, never given" actually holds well and true. Baertschi wasn't even the third best rookie, as Jooris definitely out played him. So why do people think he deserves a spot on the roster?

Setoguchi is a depth right winger. He doesn't even play the same position as Sven. Plus, there is a good chance he will start the season in the press box if Bennett lines up at centre and JC moves over to right wing. Sven was never in contention for his job. If anything, Jooris was the player who had a shot there and should be the player people are more upset about.

But, really, why be upset at all because the best two rookies are still with the team. Why is that not what people are talking about? Sven has been passed over by better young players. How about we get excited about them instead of lamenting over a player who has yet to prove anything at the pro level?

There's no room for Bennett to have a nine game trial nor for Granlund. Agreed they both outplayed Baertschi when healthy but the presumption is that they are only still in camp because they are injured, leaving Sven as the best healthy prospect.

If one of those two should unexpectedly make the team today then the universe will be back in proper order.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by New Era

Baertschi, as a Swiss national, can make a boatload of cash back home, and probably play the game he wants to play.

^^ you can certainly not make a boatload of cash playing in Switzerland. Top players usually earn between 600k and 1m there.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Poe969

maybe sven was sent down just to see how he'd handle being sent down. You'd have to think he's going to be one of if not the first call up. We're bound to suffer injuries and/or slumps that warrant a player being replaced.

Get off the ledge people.

There are a number of valid reasons why he may have been sent down, this isn't one of them.

[Poe969]

I"m not saying it was the reason but he was on the bubble and they decided to keep others. I guess I phrased it wrong, maybe they want to see how he'll react to being sent down.

People are over reacting though.

[Tinordi]

What's better for Baertschi's development right now? Tweening on the 3/4 lines in the NHL or getting top line minutes and boats of PP time in Abbotsford? For a player who's offense has really dried up, seasoning in the AHL is the best thing for him.

If he can't handle the adversity of getting sent down he can't handle the adversity of being a top tier pro.

Bottom line.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Cole436

David Jones has played two preseason games and he looked pretty damn good in one of them.

Why do people keep saying this? He had a gift goal any of us would have scored. Other than that he high sticked a teammate which the Jets got blamed for and he took a dumb penalty, that's it. He was invisible besides that.