2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[kn]

“I don’t want the thought process to be now that Sven is gone he will never be heard from again,” said Flames general manager Brad Treliving. “He’s gotta continue to push a long, continue to get better as a young player and wait for his opportunity.”

...

Is it frustrating enough to pursue other options? Baertschi, who is the final year of his entry level deal, declined to comment.

“It’s a tough question to answer,” he said. “I’ve done as much as I can to have made this team. I feel like I have a great opportunity here. I haven’t put any thought into it. I love all the guys on this team, they’re great guys. I’m really close to everyone here . . . but I’ve gotta make this team as quick as possible.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...027/story.html

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Itse

Also, that Treliving tweet... Sigh.

Which tweet?

[Ashasx]

Was Jackman really traded to make room for those who earned the opportunity?

Didn't we trade (a slightly higher pick, same round) for MacDermid to take his spot, who subsequently retired before the season ended?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

After listening to Trevling state for months that his firm belief is that a player can't over season/ripen in the AHL, I'm shocked that so many are shocked that he thinks Baertschi, Ferland, Jooris, etc can't spend at least the start of the season down there.

Yeah, I agree and would add that I'm also shocked that posters aren't putting any emphasis on the fact that Gaudreau seems to have made the team, in spite of the comments that you're referencing from management.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why does Seto have to be better than Sven? It's actually the other way around. And not simply because Seto is a vet blah blah. Sven worked on some areas in his game that needed improving, and they did. He was also invisible (holistically) offensively as well.

The critics of the a Flames handling will say they asked Sven to do this, he did, and now he's being punished. What The Flames actually need Sven to be is not a liability when he doesn't have the puck, and still generate offence. That's the type of player Sven will need to be to make it in this league, on any team. Sven has yet to show he can pull it all together. Previously he showed he could generate offence, but was god awful at the rest. This year he comes in and showed he could become "respectable" at the areas he struggled in, but at almost the complete sacrifice of the things that will make him a special player. Simply out, he hasn't put it together yet. So if a little more seasoning (hopefully not much) is required in the AHL to get it together, then let's give him his medicine whether he wants it or not. In the long run, it will benefit both him and the Flames, even if it means we have to suffer through the organization learning what Seto is all about for the first quarter of the year, it was never about this year anyway.

Anyone who feels Sven impressed this pre season is either lying to themselves or had set the bar very low (or very specific) for Sven. He was one of a number of very average to meh forwards so far. While it is true, some of those other meh forwards remain on the NHL roster, it doesn't mean this isn't the right move for a player we are more concerned about making this team 3 years from now versus this year.

A good point here about Sven learning the defense side of the game and not producing offensively. Similar thing happened to Backlund, he basically stopped producing and was a defensive centre. Hartley and management scratched him and he talked with old coaches and suddenly he was putting up points while still being strong defensively and he's our top centre by a mile right now.

It can take time for it all to come together. He's still young and the improved defensive work and compete level shows he's willing to work at it.

I'm much more encouraged that Sven will be a good NHL player now than I was before training camp. He just has to take that final step to do it at both ends consistently.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Baertschi would be paid more than setogucci, so it isnt a cap decision

More referring to Jones there.

[Headshot]

Originally Posted by kn

“I don’t want the thought process to be now that Sven is gone he will never be heard from again,” said Flames general manager Brad Treliving. “He’s gotta continue to push a long, continue to get better as a young player and wait for his opportunity.

...

Is it frustrating enough to pursue other options? Baertschi, who is the final year of his entry level deal, declined to comment.

“It’s a tough question to answer,” he said. “I’ve done as much as I can to have made this team. I feel like I have a great opportunity here. I haven’t put any thought into it. I love all the guys on this team, they’re great guys. I’m really close to everyone here . . . but I’ve gotta make this team as quick as possible.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...027/story.html

'Always earned, never given.'

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by kn

“I don’t want the thought process to be now that Sven is gone he will never be heard from again,” said Flames general manager Brad Treliving. “He’s gotta continue to push a long, continue to get better as a young player and wait for his opportunity.”

...

Is it frustrating enough to pursue other options? Baertschi, who is the final year of his entry level deal, declined to comment.

“It’s a tough question to answer,” he said. “I’ve done as much as I can to have made this team. I feel like I have a great opportunity here. I haven’t put any thought into it. I love all the guys on this team, they’re great guys. I’m really close to everyone here . . . but I’ve gotta make this team as quick as possible.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...027/story.html

And...

“The opening day roster is just that,” he said. “But after that things can change in a hurry ... we’ve got guys right now that are on the cusp of being there.
“The most important thing to take from (Sunday) is — and sort of sticking with the theme of this camp — I think it’s a good thing we’ve got people pushing for positions.”

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by saillias

Colborne played C, that's another thing. The options were Blair Jones and Ben Street. Backlund was in the dog house too (see, not just Baertschi gets tough love) and Stajan is Stajan.



Exactly, this is NHL hockey going on right now. The uncontested best league in the world. The drafting and development part of my fandom sort of turns off in October, don't ****ing tell me the next 7 months don't matter. If you're a fan worrying about McDavid now, you're doing hockey wrong.

Not that I agree with the Colborne statement, but would that not be the opposite of earning your spot? Being given one because the other options were lesser players? I thought Blair Jones outperformed Colborne when it started, but since Colborne was young and newly acquired and considered part of the fresh new faces of the rebuild nobody had a problem with it. 'Sink or swim' was the attitute with Colborne

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The point I was trying to make was that Baertschi seems to be held to a different standard than the other players on the team. I believe his mistakes are unnecessarily amplified and he has received very little praise from management. It's all negativity. No funny, positive quotes from Hartley, just silence or confusion.

He was expected to improve his two-way game over the off-season. He did. Now fans are upset he didn't put up more points. That sounds pretty frustrating to me.

I think anybody else in the same situation would feel just as Baertschi does now. He'd taken another punch to the stomach and now he'll be expected to prove himself in Adirondack. I think that's a difficult position to be in, and I know fans will get on him again if he doesn't get off to a strong start.

I feel bad for him because he's an unbelievably sincere and level-headed person and I think he's earned the opportunity. I think the NHL is the best place for his development.

Part of the reason why I mentioned Colborne was because, as it turned out, the NHL was pretty good for his development, even though he didn't earn it (as some feel about Baertschi).

Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree. I do think, as others have mentioned, that we'll see Sven up before the season's over. Likely to stay I think.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I honestly don't see the big issue. So what if he isn't here for the home opener. It is still about asset management and these players cut can freely go through waivers. Every team is in the same position getting their rosters compliant for opening day. The worst thing to do is make a deal when you are painted into a corner. The GM needs time to make space, if it takes a month then so be it.

In hindsight the GM had time and space with all the expiring contracts this summer. He chose to bring in 4 vets so if he's in a bind now (only he could tell you if he is or not) then it's his own doing.

[Mango]

“I don’t want the thought process to be now that Sven is gone he will never be heard from again,” said Flames general manager Brad Treliving. “He’s gotta continue to push a long, continue to get better as a young player and wait for his opportunity.”

“Positionally-wise, it’s probably the most crowded position we have. We want him to continue to force our hand. If that performance isn’t there than other players will get opportunities to see if they can fill that role.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...medium=twitter

[browna]

How Sven handles this situation will show how much he has or hasn't learned in the last calender year.

Last year he put himself behind the eight ball with Burke, and before Burke was here, the coach, and had to both play his way out of that hole, and show the positive attitude and intangibles of a professional rookie hockey player. His play hasn't wowed anyone and his comments after the cut today speak for themselves.

Will see how things shake out... still a day and a half before final moves have to be done. Fantastic for JG given everything "against" him to make this team to this point. Let's hope some of the vets up front were using the exhibition season for fine tuning and are ready to step it up a couple steps come the next few weeks.

Likely won't hear from Burke as much now, but would love to hear his comments after Tuesday.

[Calgary4LIfe]

So much anger in this thread really, and I think it is a bit premature.

First off, I don't think Baertschi played himself onto the team. He just didn't do enough. Some of his game looked better, but I wouldn't call him some catalyst out there making things happen. There is no question that Gaudreau did much more than he did. Bennett as well, Granlund and I would also lump Jooris and Ferland as guys who did more regularly. Did Baertschi 'suck'? No, he didn't suck, and he was pretty decent. Just not quite there. What is wrong with letting him try and dominate the AHL for 'x' amount of time first?

Secondly, we have to look at the organization as a fluid body, not one that is fixed with deadlines. We have to factor in waivers and asset management. Does this mean that sometimes a prospect gets sent down 'unfairly'? Yes, that is the unfortunate consequence of managing a team.

This is what my rationale is to proceeding with the rebuild slowly and steadily - Ottawa Senators.

They went through their rebuild rather quickly, and were looked upon as a team that was on the verge of breaking out and becoming a regular playoff team. What happened? Could it have been that they rushed through their rebuild? Maybe they threw too many kids playing out of their minds on sheer excitement and did better than expected. Eventually they leveled off and came down to their abilities, and it was not a playoff team.

Flames are doing ok. Setoguchi will either do better or he will be waived. It is that simple. When they signed him to a 'show me' reclamation contract, was the onus on him showing enough during preseason? I don't think that is a valid time frame to gain enough insight. Sure, he didn't look great. Not at all. However, many players look great in the preseason, and completely dive once the season gets underway. Let him prove to the organization that he is indeed still a capable RW in the NHL for the next segment of regular season games. If not, I will bet you that the Flames find a way to get him off the roster, including shipping him to Adirondack, or even just make him the consistently scratched forward.

Jooris played great, but he needs to show that he can do so for a larger sample size.

This season will be about earning it. It just doesn't get earned within a few meaningless preseason games. Let's all just take a breath and see what happens for the next 20 games.

I myself was more disappointed in seeing Ferland included in the last cuts, as I think not only did he have more success, but he seemed more ready to handle the rigors of an NHL season. I still think that sending him down is the 'safe' move, and I know that it will only be a matter of time before he gets called up and sticks.

This season we will all start to see the 'cream of the crop' start rising and getting their chances. It isn't that big of a deal that they aren't here on opening night. There will be trades, injuries, demotions, etc. There is a heck of a lot of opportunity. I would rather the Flames carry on this way and have them slowly add-in prospects to the roster, rather than pull an Ottawa and think that they have taken a giant step, only to realize how big of a mistake their judgement really was. This upcoming draft is way too important.

You can call it 'tanking', or you can call it 'playing it safe', or you can just call it 'proper asset management'. I just think the correct path is a slow and steady progression in which prospects get added to the team during the season as injuries mount, and trades happen. This isn't some kind of a race to the finish line. It is the accumulation and development of talent over time that will enable the Flames to one day become true contenders again. The best rebuilds are the patient rebuilds.

I remember Dean Lombardi taking a LOT of flack from both the fans and media for 'going to slow' and not making enough moves and putting enough 'youth' in the lineup. There were rumors he was about to get fired, and that is when he made the coaching change and finally made a few moves. Team won the cup. A couple of times now, and counting. Would that LA team still be this strong had he rushed it to appease fans or the media? Doubtful.

Patience is virtue in a rebuild I think. Unless you are the Edmonton Oilers. But then again, I would argue they rushed their kids up on their team prematurely - at the very least, handed over the reigns to their "young turks" (or rather, young turds) and you can see the results. These kids are going to have to earn it with a LOT of effort to make the team. Veterans who we all see as 'undeserving' - their value is still to shoulder the losses and allow the Flames to force the youth to work harder to earn it. Sure, they haven't earned it themselves, but who really cares about players like Jones and Setoguchi anyways? When this team is relevant, they will be long gone.

[Headshot]

If some posters would make TL;DR's that would be awesome lol.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand. For Sven to be 'as good' as Setoguchi is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Setoguchi is a cheap, temporary place-holder on a rebuilding team. Setoguchi is there so that the Flames have the luxury of not rushing the development of a first round draft pick who they feel will eventually be CONSIDERABLY better than Setoguchi.

We all mock the (stupid) Oilers for rushing their kids and then we jump on the Flames when they feel that the best thing for a player's development is to be sent down. The fact that the Flames are sending Sven down shows that they still believe in his ability to be the kind of top 6 player that they envisioned when they drafted him. The very point is that he is not there yet, for Sven, in the eyes of the Flames, being as good as Devin frickin' Setoguchi is NOT GOOD enough.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.

Simmer down everyone, could it be that the Flames know what they are doing? Could it be that this is really the best thing for Sven? Let's just wait and see before we burn down the Dome.

Agree. My biggest concern in this whole thing (assuming the pseudo quotes from Sportak carry some truth) is that Sven may actually be focusing on what the worst player on the team is doing. He needs to be focused on himself first and then what the best players on the team are doing if he wants to be an NHLer.

[Stay Golden]

I didn't think Sven did enough to make the team. We were at all of the preseason home games and Sven was barely noticeable in any of the games.
Some of the other STH that we usually chat to about players etc even asked I haven't heard much about Baertschi is he injured. This was going into to 3rd period in a game he was playing in.
Point is Sven didn't make much a impression this preseason outside of a few nice passes.

[killer_carlson]

my disappointment with this decision would not be anywhere near the level it is had they also cut Setoguchi.

[Enoch Root]

Good post

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

This is what my rationale is to proceeding with the rebuild slowly and steadily - Ottawa Senators.

They went through their rebuild rather quickly, and were looked upon as a team that was on the verge of breaking out and becoming a regular playoff team. What happened? Could it have been that they rushed through their rebuild? Maybe they threw too many kids playing out of their minds on sheer excitement and did better than expected. Eventually they leveled off and came down to their abilities, and it was not a playoff team.

Lots of good points but I wanted to highlight this for the people that won't read your post because it's too long.

Kids will always look better than the vets at first, while they're playing on adrenaline.

[Ashasx]

Just to point out an example a little opposite that of C4L.

Tampa had 6 rookies play more than 50 games last season. Palat, Johnson, Gudas, Brown, Kucherov, and Panik. Most of these players played more than 70 games. Palat and Johnson emerged in particular as very good young players who weren't given much thought by most outside of Tampa.

Most people didn't think that Tampa would perform as strongly as they did last season. The Lightning didn't go out in free agency and fill all roster spots with veterans. Of course, key injuries (Stamkos) and cocaine (Malone) played a role in giving these young players more opportunities, ultimately, the team far exceed expectations.

So let's not act like the Senators or the Oilers are the only possible outcomes. We currently have one 21 year old rookie who dominated the NCAA on the roster. If we're extreme in one direction, it's being conservative.