[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The second quote is amazing. Possibly the best description of the Flames franchise philosophy that I've ever read.

It's hands down the best article I have read in years regarding the Flames as it's 100% the hard truth.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames are fortunate to be served softballs by the local media so it's refreshing to see at least someone in the media calling out Edwards for what he's created.

Agree. He could have been more scathing but that’s not his style.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Let's be honest. that 8.5M only looks okay in hindsight. He was coming off a season 49 points in 56 games (prorated would be 71 points) where the Flames missed the playoffs. I think a lot of people probably would not have been happy that summer if he signed.

Tage Thompson as an RFA scored 68 points in 78 games and was given 7 year, $50M deal - and people on here thought they were drunk.

No, they're projecting their players. Minor risk, massive reward. If you can't correctly project the players you are/you have built your team around, you're a bad organization.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would say below average. The only positive is that he pays the bills and has kept the team in the city. The best owners want to win a Stanley Cup and are willing to trust the people the hired to do it. Edwards just wants to make the playoffs. Always has and he's not even managed to do a good job at that.

The narrative the Edwards just wants to make the playoffs is completely incorrect . He wants to win . He wants to win the cup every year , not sneak into the playoffs.

The issue is they/he actually believes the team is always one tweak (like the article quoted states) away from the cup

Heck we see it on this board as well - “we’ll if we had won half of the OT games. If Markstrum had played average . If we beat the terrible teams “

But consistently for 20 years the team has lacked the elite talent needed to win a cup . And for some reason the owner and/or GMs just don’t seem to understand that

It was very evident in how BT GMs. Always chasing the next “piece” Vs a coherent long term plan

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Let's be honest. that 8.5M only looks okay in hindsight. He was coming off a season 49 points in 56 games (prorated would be 71 points) where the Flames missed the playoffs. I think a lot of people probably would not have been happy that summer if he signed.

There would have been howls for sure. And butterfly effect - who knows if Gaudreau has the same kind of year when he signed a fat contract? One hopes it wouldn't affect him, but big contracts have seen some players underperform for various reasons.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Let's be honest. that 8.5M only looks okay in hindsight. He was coming off a season 49 points in 56 games (prorated would be 71 points) where the Flames missed the playoffs. I think a lot of people probably would not have been happy that summer if he signed.

They would be unhappy only if he followed up with a bad season.
He had 115 pts, nobody would have been unhappy

Yeah, nobody knew that but Treliving gambled and lost.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I know you're making a joke here, but do you really think Flames fans don't have the patience or enough understanding to endure a rebuild?

No I don't. Most of us on CP are pretty hardcore fans who know the ins and outs of the team, follow it religiously, and talk about it day in and day out. I don't think you'll find many of us who oppose a rebuild if it calls for it. Especially given that it seems to be a big part of building a long-term contender. Pain for gain, sure most of us here on onboard.

But try telling that to the midget hockey clubs who want to have team nights at the 'dome and see the team win so the kids can go home happy. Or the corporate suits who couldn't care less about the team high up in the VIP suite, and simply want their cliental to come out of the game with a win so they leave happier. Or the sponsors who want to see the team gain exposure via playoffs, which means increased revenue on their end. Or the blue-collar staff at the 'dome who depend on busy sold out nights to keep their jobs flowing so they can support themselves. The owners likely see another rebuild going against that and ultimately the team is a revenue-generating business for them. Rebuilds, more often than not, seem like a bad business move in a Canadian marke.t

I'd wager that more so than not, most fans in Calgary would rather see the team make a push for the playoffs each and every season and are pretty impervious to what goes on behind the scenes other than opening the Flames app and seeing a win or loss. CP is pretty connected (relatively speaking) to how the organization operates, so it's a lot more personal for us. Most fans couldn't care less. They want a team that wins, but probably don't know what it takes to make that happen. Just, team plays and team wins.

Just my opinion, it would be hard to sell to the general public yet another rebuild when we should have just come out of one recently a few seasons ago (which obviously didn't pan out).

[saillias]

Originally Posted by NilssonistheReal14

Lets say, Gaudreau is coming off consecutive seasons where he had 49 pts in 58 games and 59 pts in 70 games. He is asking for $8.5m x 8 extension. Do you sign that? Hindsight is awesome isnt it.

lol. No this is outrageous defense and justification, he just straight up did a bad job. lets be honest with ourselves. we knew what we had in Gaudreau. Everyone knew what his talent was and he was was capable of. Had a 99 point season. A lowball offer was stupid and his side took offense to it.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

No I don't. Most of us on CP are pretty hardcore fans who know the ins and outs of the team, follow it religiously, and talk about it day in and day out. I don't think you'll find many of us who oppose a rebuild if it calls for it. Especially given that it seems to be a big part of building a long-term contender. Pain for gain, sure most of us here on onboard.

But try telling that to the midget hockey clubs who want to have team nights at the 'dome and see the team win so the kids can go home happy. Or the corporate suits who couldn't care less about the team high up in the VIP suite, and simply want their cliental to come out of the game with a win so they leave happier. Or the sponsors who want to see the team gain exposure via playoffs, which means increased revenue on their end. Or the blue-collar staff at the 'dome who depend on busy sold out nights to keep their jobs flowing so they can support themselves. The owners likely see another rebuild going against that and ultimately the team is a revenue-generating business for them. Rebuilds, more often than not, seem like a bad business move in a Canadian marke.t

I'd wager that more so than not, most fans in Calgary would rather see the team make a push for the playoffs each and every season and are pretty impervious to what goes on behind the scenes other than opening the Flames app and seeing a win or loss. CP is pretty connected (relatively speaking) to how the organization operates, so it's a lot more personal for us. Most fans couldn't care less. They want a team that wins, but probably don't know what it takes to make that happen. Just, team plays and team wins.

Just my opinion, it would be hard to sell to the general public yet another rebuild when we should have just come out of one recently a few seasons ago (which obviously didn't pan out).

Yup, I think Calgary is generally a bandwagon hockey city outside of the hardcore fans. If you have had a share of season tickets it was hard to sell most games at breakeven last season and then this season you could barely give tickets away.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I actually find the expectation that the ownership group should just eat that, or even that they can just eat that from many in here to be a little ridiculous / borderline entitled.

If they operated like a normal business and paid for their own critical capital needs, that might be fair. But really, owning a team is a luxury hobby, and very few luxury hobbies are a net positive financially (which owning a pro sports team almost always is in the long run).

Our ownership group isn't perfect.........but I think if we were to get a new owners there is a more than likely chance we'd realize the grass if far from greener on the other side. Generally the team has been allowed to spend to the cap, we don't see them in front of the cameras all day, and seemingly we have to invent our own ownership is meddling stories. I think it could be a lot worse ownership wise, and we should be careful what we wish for. I'm happy that we have owners committed to keeping the team here, and that are willing to invest reasonably to bring players here, I don't think people should assume that would be a given.

Almost everybody spends to the cap. Other than Katz, which owners are out there embarassing themselves?

As for keeping the team in Calgary...they are playing the extortion game. And again, no other owners are out there moving their teams. 1 relocation in the last 25 years. Edwards doesn't deserve any more credit for keeping the team here (at least recently) than I do for getting out of bed every day.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Almost everybody spends to the cap. Other than Katz, which owners are out there embarassing themselves?

Vancouver, Chicago, and Buffalo come to top of my mind without doing any digging.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yup, I think Calgary is generally a bandwagon hockey city outside of the hardcore fans. If you have had a share of season tickets it was hard to sell most games at breakeven last season and then this season you could barely give tickets away.

I believe Calgary is one of the worst (smallest) hockey markets in the NHL.

We do have a collection of some hardcore fans, but:

A) largely a transient population with people from all across Canada having moved here from other cities for work, so there’s large part of the population that aren’t Flames fans but rather fans of the Leafs, Canadians, etc.

B) small population, and population in surrounding areas are largely Oilers-leaning (legacy of championships, best player of all time in Gretzky, best current player in McDavid)

C) dwindling corporate support

Mix A and B together and our fanbase is just small. Add in C and I think this team has a real problem.

You can see it in how the games get covered as well. Companies like CBC/Rogers/Bell etc. have the viewership numbers, it’s why the Flames get so openly neglected.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by saillias

lol. No this is outrageous defense and justification, he just straight up did a bad job. lets be honest with ourselves. we knew what we had in Gaudreau. Everyone knew what his talent was and he was was capable of. Had a 99 point season. A lowball offer was stupid and his side took offense to it.

bull####. There were tons of people questioning what we had. Just like there are right now questioning the hell out of Huberdeau, even though he has a far stronger track record with more consistency.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It is kind of interesting to look at this organizations "luck" when it comes to the last 3-4 generational players.

03-04: Probably looking at a top 5 pick, then they trade for Kipper and go on a crazy run. Not only does that push them out of the Ovechkin/Malkin sweepstakes, but due to the lockout and the way the draft lottery rules work it costs them a chance at Crosby in 2005 when they would have had great odds otherwise.

Agreed on everything you've said in this thread so far. If I do remember correctly though, the Flames actually had pretty fair chances at Crosby in 2005. I think teams could get between 1 to 3 balls, and the Flames qualified for 2 because they had only made the playoffs once out of the last three years. I think only 5 teams had 3 balls in play. That lottery was truly ridiculous.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I believe Calgary is one of the worst (smallest) hockey markets in the NHL.

We do have a collection of some hardcore fans, but:

A) largely a transient population with people from all across Canada having moved here from other cities for work, so there’s large part of the population that aren’t Flames fans but rather fans of the Leafs, Canadians, etc.

B) small population, and population in surrounding areas are largely Oilers-leaning (legacy of championships, best player of all time in Gretzky, best current player in McDavid)

C) dwindling corporate support

Mix A and B together and our fanbase is just small. Add in C and I think this team has a real problem.

You can see it in how the games get covered as well. Companies like CBC/Rogers/Bell etc. have the viewership numbers, it’s why the Flames get so openly neglected.

C is probably the critical item. If the boxes, gold, and club seats continue selling out it doesn't really matter if they have a couple thousand press level/green/orange left.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

C is probably the critical item. If the boxes, gold, and club seats continue selling out it doesn't really matter if they have a couple thousand press level/green/orange left.

Yup, and if those sponsors no show during rebuilds then that is a partial factor explaining why Flames refuse to rebuild willingly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

lol. No this is outrageous defense and justification, he just straight up did a bad job. lets be honest with ourselves. we knew what we had in Gaudreau. Everyone knew what his talent was and he was was capable of. Had a 99 point season. A lowball offer was stupid and his side took offense to it.

Need we go back and find all the posts that said he was shy to go to tough spots, teams had figured out his button hook, that he was a complementary player only? Lots of posters were like that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Need we go back and find all the posts that said he was shy to go to tough spots, teams had figured out his button hook, that he was a complementary player only? Lots of posters were like that.

Yeah, after that Covid season people wanted to dump Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The narrative the Edwards just wants to make the playoffs is completely incorrect . He wants to win . He wants to win the cup every year , not sneak into the playoffs.

The issue is they/he actually believes the team is always one tweak (like the article quoted states) away from the cup

Heck we see it on this board as well - “we’ll if we had won half of the OT games. If Markstrum had played average . If we beat the terrible teams “

But consistently for 20 years the team has lacked the elite talent needed to win a cup . And for some reason the owner and/or GMs just don’t seem to understand that

It was very evident in how BT GMs. Always chasing the next “piece” Vs a coherent long term plan

No. Treliving isn't an idiot. I can guarantee he wasn't gambling the family fortune on the Flames winning a cup as he knew fully what he was up against the entire time here. These people know NHL more than we do and if it's obvious to fans it's obvious to them. At the end of the day Treliving and everyone else in the office works for Edwards and nobody is going to knock on his door and tell him the team needs to rebuild. Treliving and Co. was afforded the means to spend up to the salary cap ceiling to build a playoff team and as a GM all Treliving could do was plug the holes and chase the next piece as Eric noted in his article. They all know that they are annual long shots but the organization has the mentality that if they get into the playoffs anything can happen. The problem is that it rarely ever happens for mediocre teams.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Duhatschek with a rare scathing article on the Flames. He takes shots at Sutter and Edwards.

https://theathletic.com/4421547/2023...darryl-sutter/





Flames are fortunate to be served softballs by the local media so it's refreshing to see at least someone in the media calling out Edwards for what he's created.

That is a real encouraging article, hope to see more articles like that. A small ray of sunshine from Eric D.