[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If he was better at hiring head coaches he wouldn't have ended up working with Darryl Sutter so it's fair to say that some of the reasons he is leaving is of his own doing.

Yup, don't most GMs get two or three coaches? Even if you give Peters as a gimme, the other hires were bad.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Once the Bedard sweepstakes is over, I think you can accumulate plenty of 2023 draft capital by moving Lindholm, Backlund, and others at the draft.

In a deep class, this would be the year to do it.

Disagree. I think this draft is going to be difficult to move pending UFAs for 1st round picks, even late ones. The players in top half of this draft are all reported to have top line/top pair potential and even the second half and into the second round looks to have top six/top four potential. Most teams will sit on that potential over giving it up for a year of even a great player. Treliving may have thought that stuff was okay, but good GMs know you keep those picks to keep your organization well stocked and your cap healthy. In a weak draft you can take the chance, but if you think you're getting a player that will crack your top 10, you don't make that trade.

[8sPOT]

I think if you're a contending team, and your window is now, you absolutely would move draft picks for a Backlund or Lindholm. 1st rounders or otherwise.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

I think if you're a contending team, and your window is now, you absolutely would move draft picks for a Backlund or Lindholm. 1st rounders or otherwise.

Who is to say that they won't. Last season they went for it and failed, I am sure any new GM wants to put their stamp on the team.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Disagree. I think this draft is going to be difficult to move pending UFAs for 1st round picks, even late ones. The players in top half of this draft are all reported to have top line/top pair potential and even the second half and into the second round looks to have top six/top four potential. Most teams will sit on that potential over giving it up for a year of even a great player. Treliving may have thought that stuff was okay, but good GMs know you keep those picks to keep your organization well stocked and your cap healthy. In a weak draft you can take the chance, but if you think you're getting a player that will crack your top 10, you don't make that trade.

The problem is the Flames missed the boat a little by not being honest and trying to sell some of those 2024 UFAs in the 15 days leading up to the deadline.

Florida, Islanders, Lightning, Kings, Stars, Oilers, Leafs, Devils, and Bruins have all already moved their 2023 first round pick.

So most of the teams that might be looking to gear up for the 2023-2024 season already don't have their first.

Vegas, Toronto (Boston's 1st), Carolina, Colorado, Seattle, Winnipeg, Minnesota are the only playoff teams that even have a 2023 1st to move.

And I think you could throw Pittsburgh, Washington, and St Louis (they have 3) into that mix that would likely move a 1st for the right deal.

So it will be tough...but less because smart GMs don't move those picks. But because the GMs willing to move them already did.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The problem is the Flames missed the boat a little by not being honest and trying to sell some of those 2024 UFAs in the 15 days leading up to the deadline.

Florida, Islanders, Lightning, Kings, Stars, Oilers, Leafs, Devils, and Bruins have all already moved their 2023 first round pick.

So most of the teams that might be looking to gear up for the 2023-2024 season already don't have their first.

Vegas, Toronto (Boston's 1st), Carolina, Colorado, Seattle, Winnipeg, Minnesota are the only playoff teams that even have a 2023 1st to move.

And I think you could throw Pittsburgh, Washington, and St Louis (they have 3) into that mix that would likely move a 1st for the right deal.

I don't think they missed much. I think they would have had to take back cap they couldn't afford or take a discount on the return. Term isn't attractive to teams if it will cause cap issues they have to fix in the summer.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

I think if you're a contending team, and your window is now, you absolutely would move draft picks for a Backlund or Lindholm. 1st rounders or otherwise.

Sure. 1st rounders in next year's or the following year's draft, just not this one.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I don't think Brad was the main problem, but he was certainly part of it. Ultimately if the coach/gm are not on the same page, it will surely lead to disfunction, and that is on both of them.

How this turns out depends on what actual powers Maloney has. If he really is the POHO, I hope he has the power to clean house. No half measures. Dump the coaching staff, promote Love, pick a young-ish gm and move on. The team has talent to move forward, but I am not so sure I would trust a Sutter/Conroy solution. Perhaps a little unfair to Conroy, but I think Sutter would have too much influence.

I was never a rebuild guy with this current iteration, but if you are going to do it, rip off the damn band-aid and get going.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don't think they missed much. I think they would have had to take back cap they couldn't afford or take a discount on the return. Term isn't attractive to teams if it will cause cap issues they have to fix in the summer.

Flames retain 50% on any of Toffoli, Backlund and Lindholm and they are the most valuable assets of the trade deadline.

Tampa Bay has started a new trend where trading for guys like Coleman, Hagel, etc that had 2 years of term left with lower salary has been a huge benefit.

Now if they are unwilling to retain then that is a different question, and would be a mistake by the organization. You need to retain to maximize the value of the assets you're moving.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by traptor

Yup, that presser defintely didn't leave me with alot of confidence.

The franchise is rudderless, lost and filled with holes right now.
The org needs to do the right thing and reset.
However, seeing Bean talk as a proxy for the ownership group doesn't leave me with much hope in that regards.

All true, and I don't think its a bad thing long term. This franchise needs a few slaps to the back of the head to realize they need to do things differently. It might take a period of real pain to get there. But I'm okay with it -- the Treliving era wasn't going to get them to the promised land. Time for some fresh ideas.

I was not one of the people panicking about this yesterday but the press conference was bad. Thankfully Maloney seems like an intelligent guy but I think he was thrust into this and is trying to figure out what to do next. And Bean was an outright disaster, what a terrible person to put on a mic at this moment.

The new GM hire is so key. They clearly need someone with some leadership and vision (not Sutter) to guide this franchise to the next chapter.

[Major Major]

There are a lot of picks that will be in play from teams that have spent a long enough time on the bottom and those with extra draft capital from the trade deadline. If they decide to move Lindholm and Hanifin, those could easily get you a pick in the 10-15 range.

Backlund, Toffoli, Tanev are looking at later first or multiple later picks in my mind due to age.

I don't think they could or would pull off all 5 or anything, although it would be pretty interesting if they could.

[Strange Brew]

Another thing that bothered me about that presser. Bean read off Maloney's prior experience but said absolutely nothing about why he is the right man for this job. Nothing. I know that can be a bit of a formality about these things, but give fans some confidence and tell them why you believe he will do a good job. I just don't get it, prepared remarks and the club has some kind of media relations group presumably. And that is what they come up with? If Loubardias wanted a softball question, he could have at least asked Bean why he was convinced Maloney is the right guy for this job.

At least Bean gave Treliving a compliment. "You'll be hard pressed to find a harder worker and a harder manager". Hard worker is a nice thing to say. Hard manager, not sure what that means.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Flames retain 50% on any of Toffoli, Backlund and Lindholm and they are the most valuable assets of the trade deadline.

Tampa Bay has started a new trend where trading for guys like Coleman, Hagel, etc that had 2 years of term left with lower salary has been a huge benefit.

Now if they are unwilling to retain then that is a different question, and would be a mistake by the organization. You need to retain to maximize the value of the assets you're moving.

I don't think the value will be much different in the offseason or next trade line versus this past deadline if they trade them to contenders. Late firsts and some okay prospects will be the going rate.

My hope is that the new GM nails some re-tool trades with teams that exit earlier than expected. I am not holding my breath for a rebuild and had zero expectations that they would sell players while still in the playoff race.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I don't think Tre had anything against the organization. I think this was purely a career move. He knows it's either a rebuild or mediocrity. He's been here for one rebuild, so I can see why he doesn't want to go through that again - and being a bubble team for the next few years isn't going to do anything for his reputation as a GM. He made the right call to leave.

I tend to agree. If the team was contending right now, I doubt he would have wanted to part ways. Given the shape of the team and that there still might be some sympathy towards him from the hockey world for losing his 2 top players (even though that is partially on him), he knows that his stock is only going to go down if he stayed. If the team was only offering him a short extension, it makes sense from a career perspective that he leaves now as things are trending down here.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Major Major

There are a lot of picks that will be in play from teams that have spent a long enough time on the bottom and those with extra draft capital from the trade deadline. If they decide to move Lindholm and Hanifin, those could easily get you a pick in the 10-15 range.

I don't think any UFA gets a pick the 10-15 range outright. It have to be a team that that trades a 24 1st for them and then they have a worse than expected season.

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Sure. 1st rounders in next year's or the following year's draft, just not this one.

Even though 2023 is a super draft I don't think it's a definite "no" to all first rounders being traded this summer for guy's with hardly any term left, at least I hope not in specific cases like Lindholm. After all, this year's trade deadline we all thought that teams wouldn't be trading any 1st/2nd's for 2023 and by my count there was:

5 Trades involving 2nd Round Picks (2023)

9 Trades involving 1st Round Picks (2023)

Obviously that would mean that there's that many picks more unlikely to move now that they've been traded, but again look at teams like Detroit with 3 first round picks this year and right on the cusp of competing. It's not crazy to think they would take a chance on a Lindholm for one of their 1st round picks+. If Lindholm makes it clear he won't re-sign with them, then Detroit or whoever can flip him at the deadline for another king's ransom and he's probably helped them in the standings big time until then.

I get your logic and I think you're right about 1st's being hard to acquire for the vast majority of pending UFA's, but I think there's a few GM's willing to take a risk in specific cases like on a player such as Lindholm (I really like the fit on paper for Detroit, they used to be known big time for their European players and Zetterberg is still around the team). But I could be out to lunch, time will tell.

[powderjunkie]

I'm watching the presser and gotta chime in on the notion of Bean asking Maloney 'if he wanted to be GM' - I definitely didn't hear that as an actual offer of the position, but more likely a simple question to rule in/out one possible option.

As a fan who enjoys chaos, it's fun to hear Maloney speaking too candidly about everything (ie. Brad driving the decision to leave)...but it doesn't necessarily inspire confidence that Maloney is a shrewd operator...though maybe he just DGAF about corporate speak

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If he was better at hiring head coaches he wouldn't have ended up working with Darryl Sutter so it's fair to say that some of the reasons he is leaving is of his own doing.

Out of thanks, but I wanted to quote for agreement.

[NilssonistheReal14]

Lots of criticism of Brad here, without really knowing or looking at facts. So, lets put ourselves in his shoes knowing the facts?

Lets say you are evaluating trades for Tkachuk. Your very clear directive from your boss is we ARE NOT rebuilding. Which offer do you accept? the rebuild one? or, the keep the trying to win course?

Lets say, Gaudreau is coming off consecutive seasons where he had 49 pts in 58 games and 59 pts in 70 games. He is asking for $8.5m x 8 extension. Do you sign that? Hindsight is awesome isnt it.

Lets say, your other star player, Tkachuk handcuffs you by telling you I will only sign a contract that takes him to free agency. You are kinda stuck, arent you? he actually did Treliving a solid by telling him he won't resign a year in advance. And, yea, his reason for not resigning was "whats the plan with Darryl?" oh, ok, I am not resigning.

Lets say, after one year of Ward, your boss goes out, calls up his old buddy and says, hey you want to come take this job? And, then calls you up and tells you "hey, we are hiring this old friend of mine. can you get rid of your guy please".

Ya, granted, his previous coach hires were not awesome. Some unfortunate circumstances in Peters. But, maybe he was given a budget and those were the best he could get?

I would say, given a mandate from ownership that we will not rebuild, having star players who dont want to play for a coach given to you by the owners, being told by the coach that these are the kind of guys I want, go get them, oh and these older guys? these are who I am going to play, so resign them. Well, I think we have to look at all that. And, ask yourself, would you have done any better? Not likely.

And, then, after nine years of having to sell players on coming to a country with a higher tax rate, a city with an old crappy arena, where you still have to park outside, and by the way, we have a coach who our star players didnt want to play for, and, really, it is getting harder and harder for me to try to sell you on coming here? Why would you want to? Well, the only thing I can really say is, we are close to the mountains, which, by the way, our standard player contract states you can not ski or snowboard in season, so... ya, well at least its a nice view. Wouldnt you kind of get tired of it to? And, you know you have built up a good reputation in the industry? And, there are all these other teams who may want to hire you? And, ones where selling players on coming to play with your team is so much easier, and the owner will give me some leeway. and, at least I have now earned that right to have the leeway. Wouldnt you want out too?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'm watching the presser and gotta chime in on the notion of Bean asking Maloney 'if he wanted to be GM' - I definitely didn't hear that as an actual offer of the position, but more likely a simple question to rule in/out one possible option.

As a fan who enjoys chaos, it's fun to hear Maloney speaking too candidly about everything (ie. Brad driving the decision to leave)...but it doesn't necessarily inspire confidence that Maloney is a shrewd operator...though maybe he just DGAF about corporate speak

I liked his candour too. I do wonder if he just didn’t want to be jobless but may ultimately join Treliving wherever he goes.