Bill Peters' open apology to Treliving. UPD: Aliu responds

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Could someone please explain to me why it matters how or why or who Peters used the n word? it's all repugnant and racist and should result in your instant termination, walking into a room with or without a black team member and saying 'turn that 'n' music off' should get you fired, it makes no difference who put the music on or whether the word was specifically directed at anyone.

You are right that it's wrong any time and grounds for firing. You are wrong that its not worse directed at someone. There, it's deliberately designed to hurt that person.

In this case, knowing what's come out about Peters' mind games, and power trips, it fits the pattern. He might not even be a racist at heart - he might just have chosen the word that would do the most damage. Which is terrible too.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes, I hear after the war people were pretty nasty towards the Nazis as well, terrible it is, people should be ashamed

"Turn off that damned Nazi music!"

[shermanator]

From The Beaverton - "Bill Peters asks Calgary GM to forward apology to black player if he gets the chance"

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/11...ts-the-chance/

CALGARY – Calgary Flmes coach Bill Peters has asked the team’s GM to forward his apology letter to the black player he racially taunted and put down while he was a coach in the minor leagues, whenever he gets around to it.

In the letter, Peters said he didn’t mean to put down his boss, and takes full responsibility for the disrespect he has shown for wealthy white General Managers everywhere.

“I would like to apologize to the real victim in all of this, GM Brad Treliving and his organization,” said Peters in a letter to his employer. “Please accept this as a sincere apology to you, and the entire Calgary Flames organization, for offensive language I used in a professional setting a decade ago, when I should have used that language in a more informal setting among white people.”

[Tron_fdc]

It sure seems like this has entered into a potential wrongful dismissal case. Definitely why it's taking so long to get a conclusion; it's the same thing you see in the workplace. You don't make snap decisions until you have full, 3rd party investigation results and a legal opinion.

Peters knows he is done. Now it's up to the Flames to either can him with cause and no pay (likely triggering a court case), or buy him out. That's the only argument I can see at this point.

Not a chance this guy ever coaches again in the NHL and he knows it. Now it's all about money.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Makarov

"Turn off that damned Nazi music!"

Bloody 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me'

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

"Turn off that damned Nazi music!"

Friggin' Wagner in the dressing room.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Yes, I hear after the war people were pretty nasty towards the Nazis as well, terrible it is, people should be ashamed

What a terrible comparison.



Not only that, Apartheid ended about three decades ago meaning there is a whole new generation who had nothing to do with it getting discriminated.



And the worst is that you think it's acceptable. You're the one who should be ashamed.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m somewhat amazed at how confident you are in your google search. Instead of just doing a simple search, perhaps you could read enough to gain the appropriate historical context you claim others lack.

Were these people discriminated against for being white? No. And that’s an extremely big difference. “White people” have never faced systemic discrimination in our culture. “Black people” have. There are also other groups that have faced discrimination based on their religion, or their nationality, but being “white” in our culture has never been a source for meaningful discrimination. Ever.

This historical context should help you properly evaluate the ACLC’s opinion on the matter, as these are facts, not opinions, unlike your misinterpretation of the topic.

Really...now racism has to be meaningful. Racism is wrong no matter what. I do not care what group is being discriminated against, the ROOT of the problem is racism.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Could someone please explain to me why it matters how or why or who Peters used the n word? it's all repugnant and racist and should result in your instant termination, walking into a room with or without a black team member and saying 'turn that 'n' music off' should get you fired, it makes no difference who put the music on or whether the word was specifically directed at anyone.

Like I agree with your overall sentiment, no matter the case it was repugnant and racist and deserving of being fired, but directing that language at a black person does make it worse. Especially a young man who had difficult times in the lockerroom already. Aiming it at him clearly impacted Aliu for years, it made him rebel against Peters, cost him his spot on the team, likely affected his entire career. So in directing the language at Aliu he made (for lack of better word or expression) a tangible victim making an already foul act that much worse.

But it only changes it from being a vile disgusting act to an extremely vile disgusting act.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by manwiches

One of my Caucasian friend's just brought up a good point.

He had a love for country music, and his minor coach used to come in and and say 'Turn that white boy honky tonk sh*t off!'. I guess that should label him a racist too?

I agree entirely with this past post though. My mom would say the same thing about my choice in music growing up, as I too listened to Hip Hop. It was said out of frustration, and in the moment. I believe Peters probably did the same thing, unfortunately it was in a professional setting, and in front of a bunch of impressionable kids.

I don't believe Peters is a racist. He said a racially insensitive thing. I'm probably of the minority where I think this is being blown a bit out of proportion, and the culture and environment now are making this what it is. I am empathetic towards those who feel attacked and marginalized, however I also believe the world is a far more sensitive place than when I grew up.

Nice false equivalency. It holds as much water as a sieve.

Tell me when exactly when country music loving honky white boys were property to be bought and sold by other people?

When exactly were they segregated to their own water fountains or forced to sit at the back of the bus?

Insulting someone is one thing. “Honky White boy” can be an insult like “fat” or “stupid”. A racial slur like the one used is on an entirely different level.

Do better.

When you know better, do better.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Saqe

You don't have to look in the past, racism against whites in South Africa has risen dramatically in the last decade or so. Up to the point where the ruling party ANC publicly threatened them in speeches.

It is pretty bad in South Africa, white people only make 5 times as much money each year as black people. Before they had a government that ensured that was many times higher. And they are taking action, when a white man abused a black child in Spur Steak Ranches restaurant and was kicked out of the restaurant, white people responded by boycotting the restaurant. Many of them will not take this quasi equality lying down.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I think it was mentioned by Burke last night but the theory is if he does that, he opens himself up to potential lawsuit(s) from Aliu. It will likely happen anyway but the wording of the apology was, in my layman, Gen X non-Boomer view, calculated to limit any potential damage admission would give. I think the apology lines in the letter are of a similar nature with the generic team comment and Aliu's response is laying the groundwork for some sort of suit as well.



It's an ugly situation but if the league comes out with more progressive policies it could eventually be a good thing.

Oh sorry, I meant that I don't understand why he apologized (if he indeed did apologize) to the Ice Hogs players at the time and not specifically Aliu.

It just seems unbelievable that he would acknowledge and address that he was offensive and not acknowledge that the one black player in the room would have greater reason to take offense and be especially entitled to an apology.

Bill Peters is not a dumb guy, so I have trouble believing he was just oblivious. I'm curious if he was apologizing to do the bare minimum and didn't actually care about the offense caused. Or maybe he was being petty and didn't make any extra effort towards Aliu because he didn't like him. I mean, it could be a lot of things... just really bizarre to me.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by cannon7

That wasn't the original argument. Don't think anyone was arguing an equivalency.

Then what on earth was your point of bringing into the conversation instances of past racial prejudice against Irish and Italian immigrants in the first place?

But I am also interested in hearing more about this:

Originally Posted by cannon7

http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism

This is post-modernist identity politic nonsense. Fine if you believe it, but only a matter of opinion and not fact.

What of this description do you take issue with, and why?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

FWIW, I don't think Bill Peters is a racist.

Bizarre take. Not sure how you can consider anything but. He used the N word in a professional setting.

Like what are you trying to say? He used racist language but I don’t think he meant it? He used racist language but he’s not a racist?

Gimme a break. Why say that?

[stone hands]

i dont agree with cannon7's line of reasoning on the topic, but i'll bite as i asked it earlier and didnt get an answer:

if a group of people who belong to race x beat up a person of race y, specifically because of their race, is it racism, regardless of the colour of the individuals present?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Nice false equivalency. It holds as much water as a sieve.

Tell me when exactly when country music loving honky white boys were property to be bought and sold by other people?

When exactly were they segregated to their own water fountains or forced to sit at the back of the bus?

Insulting someone is one thing. “Honky White boy” can be an insult like “fat” or “stupid”. A racial slur like the one used is on an entirely different level.

Do better.

When you know better, do better.

You need to keep up. "Honky White Boy" refers to downtrodden Irish-Italian cattle farmers and country is the music of their people.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

It sure seems like this has entered into a potential wrongful dismissal case. Definitely why it's taking so long to get a conclusion; it's the same thing you see in the workplace. You don't make snap decisions until you have full, 3rd party investigation results and a legal opinion.

Peters knows he is done. Now it's up to the Flames to either can him with cause and no pay (likely triggering a court case), or buy him out. That's the only argument I can see at this point.

Not a chance this guy ever coaches again in the NHL and he knows it. Now it's all about money.

This is true. And FWIW I suspect that contractually, the Flames are on the hook. I don't think a court would say that a morals clause includes stuff that happened years before unless there were representations made about no bad past conduct made at the time of hiring (and I doubt there were). Morals clauses are tricky to begin with, but I've never seen one that applies retroactively like that.

That said, Peters has an interest in ending this as quickly and quietly as possible too, and may be trying to avoid a permanent ban by the NHL (which would affect affiliate minor league jobs as well). So he'd be well advised to accept a settlement that the NHL buys into.

[Bonded]

Yeah, I cannot see the Flames getting away with paying Peter's a good chunk of what he is owed.

[Meers]

Take five minutes to meditate. Try to quiet the judgmental voice in your head. Call your mother. Pay for someone else’s coffee. Compliment a colleague’s work.

Then consider the number of times you may have said a rushed or hurtful thing in the past.

Without sober second thought we descend into mob justice.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by stone hands

i dont agree with cannon7's line of reasoning on the topic, but i'll bite as i asked it earlier and didnt get an answer:

if a group of people who belong to race x beat up a person of race y, specifically because of their race, is it racism, regardless of the colour of the individuals present?

It doesn't matter. It is still wrong.