Do NOT practice Christianity in China..

[SweetDoc]

Originally Posted by sebbie

ok im not to proud to admit i may have reached abit and misunderstood what you were trying to say. but its nice that you call me names and talk down to me. heres a news flash for you, you are the most religious person on this forum. your religion is science and you push it on people more then the church pushes its ideas. dont believe me? a few months ago you said, paraphrasing "im happy when ever i convert a christain to atheism". not only that you belittle peoples beliefs by saying things like "believe in the speghetti monster" if you want. you are the definition of a radical atheist.

anyways you said that china has the right to control religion in an earlier post. i dont know how i may have misinterperted that as a pro communist view.i guess communism is bad except when it holds down what you dont believe in?

Good call, I feel the same way. If a person can't debate without belittling others, having a condescneding or patronizing tone, and insulting them, then they really shouldn't be debating. Sure these things can get emotional, but petty insults directed at a persons intelligence in a debate is another way of showing you probably don't deserve anyone's respect and that your opinions hold no weight.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by SweetDoc

Good call, I feel the same way. If a person can't debate without belittling others, having a condescneding or patronizing tone, and insulting them, then they really shouldn't be debating. Sure these things can get emotional, but petty insults directed at a persons intelligence in a debate is another way of showing you probably don't deserve anyone's respect and that your opinions hold no weight.

so Im assuming you have the ability to read my face and hear my tonal inflections while I type? Obviously you only want to read the insults in one direction.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

so Im assuming you have the ability to read my face and hear my tonal inflections while I type? Obviously you only want to read the insults in one direction.

*pats head*

Nice Cheesy. Place nice with the Noobs.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

*pats head*

Nice Cheesy. Place nice with the Noobs.

No! Im tired and grouchy today! LOL

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

No! Im tired and grouchy today! LOL

Me too! I'm trying to quit smoking and I forgot my patch today and I don't have cigarettes and I'm about to hurt someone!

[FlamesFanInEdm]

no the insults are not being read one way, im pretty much an outsider to this debate, only posted twice and you ignored them completely, Cheese, but it seems readily apparent that you have an agenda. This whole debate between theism and atheism in this thread started with you saying, "Maybe they are stopping those from preaching what cant be proven?" You also have moved onto preaching what cant be proven in this thread. I understand that you are passionate about this but when you start referring to people as being from Grade 3 and such, yu come across with little weight in the other stuff you say. A real debate has no place for that.
________
Dodge hornet

[sebbie]

[quote=Cheese Obviously you only want to read the insults in one direction.[/quote]

how many directions are there? you called me a third grade child.... i dont know what direction other then mine that was directed at.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInEdm

no the insults are not being read one way, im pretty much an outsider to this debate, only posted twice and you ignored them completely, Cheese, but it seems readily apparent that you have an agenda. This whole debate between theism and atheism in this thread started with you saying, "Maybe they are stopping those from preaching what cant be proven?" You also have moved onto preaching what cant be proven in this thread. I understand that you are passionate about this but when you start referring to people as being from Grade 3 and such, yu come across with little weight in the other stuff you say. A real debate has no place for that.

Well maybe i didnt find the need to respond to your threads...I dont have to reply to everyone. I used the grade 3 analogy because his response to me was of that type. He wasnt reading what I said and inferring things into my posts...more than once. Then he tried to refer to me as something akin to a Nazi. Now you may not think thats too bad...but quite frankly I march out links and information and get nothing but crap in return.
Besides....IF religions can preach then so can I...and I will bark as loud as the pious arse that stands on the pew of the local Catholic church telling children they will go to hell for being bad.

So IF you want to debate...feel free...provide some meat to your response.

[sebbie]

Originally Posted by Cheese

. I used the grade 3 analogy because his response to me was of that type. He wasnt reading what I said and inferring things into my posts...more than once. Then he tried to refer to me as something akin to a Nazi..

i called you a nazi? hmmm whos putting words in whos mouth now? and not only that i appologized for misinterpeting your posts......... i guess keep bringing things up from the past, kinda like a..... third grader

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Ever hear of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Hoxha

Obviously neither you, nor the man who wrote out his opinion on "About.com" has heard of him.

Probably the best example of an atheist government persecuting religon.

Communism and atheism may not have been intrinsically linked, but religon often interfered with ability for communist leaders to develop the cults of personalities that were required to seduce the people. Therefore religon was often suppressed and atheism was pushed, even when the leaders themselves still worshipped.

Ok so you march out another 2nd world war Marxist Leninist. Your buddy Enver was a paranoid despot typical to Stalin.

In religious circles, it is sometimes suggested that religious people in Albania have been persecuted more than non-religious people. Perhaps this is true. But Albanian communism under Enver Hoxha has been strongly authoritarian, and Hoxha's ruthlessness has also hit quite a number of fellow-Communists. His ruthlessness has been directed at everybody who has tried to oppose him, whether the person in question has been religious or not.


When we consider this information from Amnesty International and other sources, it is clear that not only religious people have been persecuted in Albania. It is not even possible to say that religious people have been persecuted more than non-religious people. It seems likely, though, that of the religious people the Catholic clergy and the Muslim Bektashi have suffered most heavily. The information about the Orthodox and the Sunni Muslims is rather scanty. Apparently the Sunni Muslims and many of the Orthodox have been better able to adapt themselves to the Communist regime than the Catholics and the Bektashi. In this connection, it may be recalled that Enver Hoxha and most other leading Communists had an Islamic background.


The paper "Albania: An Atheistic State?" was written in August 1989. In January 1990, I received a letter from Mr. William B. Bland, the secretary of the Albanian Society in Great Britain. In his letter Mr. Bland objected to my use of the term "persecution." In his opinion "No one has ever been executed or imprisoned [in Albania] for holding an opinion, only for actions prescribed by the law. In the 1940's and the 1950's, a number of clergymen were tried and found guilty of serious criminal acts." One of these was "Anton Harapi, who was well-known as a Regent under the Nazi occupation, and was charged with treason." According to Mr. Bland, such cases are misrepresented if they are called "religious persecution."

Mr. Bland also maintains that the Albanian view is that "many of the precepts of religion are unethical" and that "as Albanian scholars see it, Christianity serves the interests of the exploiting classes, . . . Albanian lawyers, therefore, claim that the prohibition of religious propaganda is not a violation of human rights, but it is necessary to protect human rights."

Where did I find these quotes you might ask? I didnt have much info at fingertip so I went to the source itself.
The Albanian Canadian League Information Service!
Mr Hoxha was an ass....as much as Hitler, or Stalin or any other despot.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally Posted by Buff

Basically, you're not allowed to preach what you believe in.

Good, less bull**** being spewed in the world.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by sebbie

i called you a nazi? hmmm whos putting words in whos mouth now? and not only that i appologized for misinterpeting your posts......... i guess keep bringing things up from the past, kinda like a..... third grader

sebbie my son..take a deep breath and back away from the monitor. Now go have a beer and a smoke if you need one. I brought up the post because someone ELSE referred to it. You need to read to understand this. As to the part about..."akin to the Nazis"....

wow nice choice of words seening how your decendants killed more then half my family after the war ended. stalin or not, communism is far worse then religion. just a fun little tid bit, my uncle was put in a box with the top only having bars so the sunlight could burn him during the day and the mosquitos drive him mad at night and a shoe for a pillow because he ****ed of some army officials during his madatory milatary service.

I dint say Nazi...I said akin to them...which is what you were referring to in YOUR post above.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I think he's saying it's ignorant to completely rule something out when there's no evidence against it.

I guess we have different interpretations of "ignorant" then.

Riddle me this... Do you not completely rule out anything even when there is no evidence against it?

For example, this comes from the wikipedia page on Scientology...

the story of Xenu, the galactic tyrant who first kidnapped certain individuals who were deemed "excess population" and loaded these individuals into space planes for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).

I have no evidence that this is not true. An awful lot of people believe it, I know that, but I have no evidence that it's not true yet still I completely rule it out. Does that make me ignorant? If it does, are you ignorant just like me, or do you believe this scientology baloney just might be true"

Now I do recognize that believing in this stuff and just believing in a less-specific God story are two different things but the point is that not believing in something that can't be proven is hardly ignorant.

[sebbie]

Originally Posted by Cheese

sebbie my son..take a deep breath and back away from the monitor. Now go have a beer and a smoke if you need one. I brought up the post because someone ELSE referred to it. You need to read to understand this. As to the part about..."akin to the Nazis"....



I dint say Nazi...I said akin to them...which is what you were referring to in YOUR post above.

oh give me a break, akin to nazis is the same as when i said dont defened communism. but you came back and said i called you a commie. come on now if we are gonna nit pick about wording our sentences then it goes both ways. that was my point. and nice how you snuck in "sebbie my son" as if i was a child.not to mention "you need to read to understand this", like i cant read. sad part is i can read and i can read between the lines.
but as a catholic i forgive you brother

edit:and dont tell me you didnt bring up the nazi thing to add drama to your point of view.

[FlamesFanInEdm]

Ok Ill try to debate a bit. First off though, Id be interested in knowing which creation theory you suscribe to. I find it impossible to believe that the surroundings, earth, and universe we live in is an accident, a product of chance. A look at things around us, for example, gravity, indicate to me the incredible intelligence and design that was required for the earth to function the way it does. According to http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...i3/gravity.asp ,


The force F between two masses m1 and m2, when separated by a distance r, can be written as F = (G m1 m2)/r 2
Where G is the gravitational constant, first measured by Henry Cavendish in 1798.1
This equation shows that gravity decreases as the separation distance, r, between two objects becomes large but never quite reaches zero.
The inverse-square nature of this equation is intriguing. After all, there is no essential reason why gravity should behave in this way. In a chance, evolving universe, some random exponent like r1.97 or r2.3 would seem much more likely. However, precise measurements have shown an exact exponent out to at least 5 decimal places, 2.00000. As one researcher put it, this result seems ?just a little too neat.?2 We may conclude that the gravity force shows precise, created design. Actually, if the exponent deviated just slightly from exactly 2, planet orbits and the entire universe would become unstable.



This is science supporting intelligent design. Theres more at that link too.

The statement that science disproves creation is commonly thrown about by athiests, I dont know if you believe that but although it may disprove a literal interpretation of Genesis 1, I dont think it disproves intelligent design by a Creater. Many influential scientists from the past put their faith in creation (Francis Bacon, Johann Kepler, Blaise Pascal, John Dalton ... all people Ive heard about during high school).


Heres a link for more, I dont know if everything here is good stuff, but I think these atleast raise alot of interesting questions regarding design.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...faq/design.asp

Im not here to set out to prove a specific religion, I just think that intelligent design makes it hard to believe in no God.
________
Buy Scale

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I guess we have different interpretations of "ignorant" then.

Riddle me this... Do you not completely rule out anything even when there is no evidence against it?

For example, this comes from the wikipedia page on Scientology...

the story of Xenu, the galactic tyrant who first kidnapped certain individuals who were deemed "excess population" and loaded these individuals into space planes for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).

I have no evidence that this is not true. An awful lot of people believe it, I know that, but I have no evidence that it's not true yet still I completely rule it out. Does that make me ignorant? If it does, are you ignorant just like me, or do you believe this scientology baloney just might be true"

Now I do recognize that believing in this stuff and just believing in a less-specific God story are two different things but the point is that not believing in something that can't be proven is hardly ignorant.

I said 'he' was saying that it's ignorant to rule something out when there's no evidence against it.

IMO, it's ignorant to declare with absolute certainty something is false when there's no proof it's false. Likewise, it's ignorant to declare with absolute certainty that something is true when there's no proof it's true. It's the degree of certainty about truth or falsehood that makes ignorance. Cheese is absolutely certain there is no God. That's fairly ignorant. I am not absolutely certain there is a God, but more than fairly certain there is one, as I wish to believe in one as it makes my heart weigh less. That's also ignorant. I am fairly certain that we were not transplanted by aliens, but am open to the possibility. Less ignorant. Those who are absolutely certain we were transplanted by aliens are just as ignorant as those who have ruled with certainty on God as well.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInEdm

Ok Ill try to debate a bit. First off though, Id be interested in knowing which creation theory you suscribe to. I find it impossible to believe that the surroundings, earth, and universe we live in is an accident, a product of chance. A look at things around us, for example, gravity, indicate to me the incredible intelligence and design that was required for the earth to function the way it does. According to http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...i3/gravity.asp ,


The force F between two masses m1 and m2, when separated by a distance r, can be written as F = (G m1 m2)/r 2
Where G is the gravitational constant, first measured by Henry Cavendish in 1798.1
This equation shows that gravity decreases as the separation distance, r, between two objects becomes large but never quite reaches zero.
The inverse-square nature of this equation is intriguing. After all, there is no essential reason why gravity should behave in this way. In a chance, evolving universe, some random exponent like r1.97 or r2.3 would seem much more likely. However, precise measurements have shown an exact exponent out to at least 5 decimal places, 2.00000. As one researcher put it, this result seems ‘just a little too neat.’2 We may conclude that the gravity force shows precise, created design. Actually, if the exponent deviated just slightly from exactly 2, planet orbits and the entire universe would become unstable.



This is science supporting intelligent design. Theres more at that link too.

The statement that science disproves creation is commonly thrown about by athiests, I dont know if you believe that but although it may disprove a literal interpretation of Genesis 1, I dont think it disproves intelligent design by a Creater. Many influential scientists from the past put their faith in creation (Francis Bacon, Johann Kepler, Blaise Pascal, John Dalton ... all people Ive heard about during high school).


Heres a link for more, I dont know if everything here is good stuff, but I think these atleast raise alot of interesting questions regarding design.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...faq/design.asp

Im not here to set out to prove a specific religion, I just think that intelligent design makes it hard to believe in no God.

I know this is shortcutting things...but weve had this discussion quite a few times. I refer you to a few posts where a number of us had some great philisophical discussions. Heres some links to the battle lines...feel free to bring em back with your comments attached.

The Priest

The Faith Poll

When Faith is Shaken

Museum for Creationists

Christian Schools

Shrek 2

Cartoons and Muslims

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I said 'he' was saying that it's ignorant to rule something out when there's no evidence against it.

IMO, it's ignorant to declare with absolute certainty something is false when there's no proof it's false. Likewise, it's ignorant to declare with absolute certainty that something is true when there's no proof it's true. It's the degree of certainty about truth or falsehood that makes ignorance. Cheese is absolutely certain there is no God. That's fairly ignorant. I am not absolutely certain there is a God, but more than fairly certain there is one, as I wish to believe in one as it makes my heart weigh less. That's also ignorant. I am fairly certain that we were not transplanted by aliens, but am open to the possibility. Less ignorant. Those who are absolutely certain we were transplanted by aliens are just as ignorant as those who have ruled with certainty on God as well.

Are you suggesting we are all ignorant Fly? What an ignorant thing to say!

[FlamesFanInEdm]

Originally Posted by Cheese

So IF you want to debate...feel free...provide some meat to your response.

You invite me to debate and then I spend a bit of time gathering a post together and your reponse is to send me off to some previous threads Do you not really want me to debate then? Was there no 'meat' in my response?
________
Pornstars ####ing

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInEdm

You invite me to debate and then I spend a bit of time gathering a post together and your reponse is to send me off to some previous threads Do you not really want me to debate then? Was there no 'meat' in my response?

No your response was great...but Im tired and grouchy and my best response was go read what was written before. Besides I think youll get a kick out of some of them.