Cartoons upset Danish Muslims

[HOZ]

I have to say that they are pretty tame stuff...mind you I cannot understand the words.

They have a link on the page to theoffending cartoons.

Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

[Reaper]

Here's a non-broken link:

Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

[Cowperson]

According to the Islam it is blasphemous to make images of the prophet.

So . . . . this isn't about whether or not the cartoons are even satire or that they are hate-mongering . . . . it's just about making an image?

Anyone in the world making an image?

Write a letter to the editor if you don't like it.

As far as the diplomatic protestations are concerned, that's just another clear example of why religion should be kept separate from government.

Cowperson

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 23 2005, 03:16 PM
According to the Islam it is blasphemous to make images of the prophet.

So . . . . this isn't about whether or not the cartoons are even satire or that they are hate-mongering . . . . it's just about making an image?

Anyone in the world making an image?

Write a letter to the editor if you don't like it.

As far as the diplomatic protestations are concerned, that's just another clear example of why religion should be kept separate from government.

Cowperson

I think it is blasphemous to make images of Mohammed because it might lead to idolatry. This has been a big problem in religions and was even warned against in the bible. So what do the Catholics do but make icons of Jesus and Mary and worship them. Moslems have gone to the other extreme, probably due to the politics of his time. Times change but religions have a hard time adapting.

[Weiser Wonder]

I keep reading the title as "Cartoons upset Danish Muffins". :unsure:

[sclitheroe]

Originally posted by Vulcan@Oct 23 2005, 03:54 PM
So what do the Catholics do but make icons of Jesus and Mary and worship them. Moslems have gone to the other extreme, probably due to the politics of his time. Times change but religions have a hard time adapting.

Just for the record, Catholics do not worship icons or other religious symbolism such as statues, although admitedly, to non-Catholic Christians and others, the veneration heaped upon them can often look like it on the outside. Consider them tools for helping people express and visualize their faith in a tangible way.

-Scott

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by sclitheroe@Oct 24 2005, 11:59 PM
Just for the record, Catholics do not worship icons or other religious symbolism such as statues, although admitedly, to non-Catholic Christians and others, the veneration heaped upon them can often look like it on the outside. Consider them tools for helping people express and visualize their faith in a tangible way.

-Scott

Wellllll... fair enough I suppose, but, really, I don't think 'idolotry' and what Catholics do is that different. 'Pagans' worship idols not because the idol itself has power, but because the idol is a physical representation of their spiritual beliefs. Heck, a priest will bring a cross and holy water with him to an exorcism, so clearly the actual, physical religious symbol must have some 'real' powers (according to those who believe in exorcisms).

I'm not really sure what makes Catholic 'symbolism' not 'icons' or 'idols'. People even pray to the Virgin Mary and Jesus, specifically.

There are some who even pose the idea that Christianity leans heavily towards polytheism, given the Holy Trinity, multitudes of 'prayable' saints, each with their own special areas of interest and power. It's pretty interesting how our 'monotheism' shares a lot in common w/ 'paganism'.

[Frank the Tank]

There was an image of the Prophet on my grilled cheese today. I ate it with some ketchup. Am I going to hell?

[Cowperson]

An update on this ancient thread . . . . .

Saudi Arabia recalls its ambassador to Denmark. Protests in the Muslim world.

A French newspaper stirs the pot by publishing the offending caricatures in the name of freedom of expression.

“Because no religious dogma can impose its view on a democratic and secular society, France Soir publishes the incriminated cartoons,” the paper said.

Under a headline “Yes, we have the right to caricature God,” the paper ran a front page cartoon with Buddha, the Christian and Jewish Gods and the Prophet Mohammed sitting on a cloud above Earth, with the Christian God saying: “Don’t complain Mohammed, we’ve all been caricatured here.”

France Soir, which is in financial difficulties and looking for a buyer, devoted two inside pages to the Danish cartoons, with editor Serge Faubert unapologetic.

“Enough lessons from these reactionary bigots! There is nothing in these incriminated cartoons that intends to be racist or denigrate any community as such,” he wrote in a commentary.


“Some are funny, others less so. That’s it. That is why we have decided to publish them.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

UPDATE - Seven newspapers in France, Germany, The Netherlands, Italy and Spain reprint the caricatures.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670370.stm

Cowperson

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

There was an image of the Prophet on my grilled cheese today. I ate it with some ketchup. Am I going to hell?

Naw, I think you went to delicious instead.

[HOZ]

French Editor is fired...looking for link.

[HOZ]

French Editor is sacked over cartoons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4672642.stm

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by HOZ

French Editor is sacked over cartoons
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4672642.stm

That should definitely be in an Irony Thread after his comments above about making a point about free speech.

Papers in Switzerland and Hungary also publish the cartoons in addition to those in Italy, Spain, Netherlands and Italy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11097877/

Are the protests justified? A live vote at MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11126728/

EDIT: Death to Denmark marches in the Middle East.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/eu...rap/index.html

How do you reconcile press freedom with religious beliefs? Where do "community standards" impact what newspapers print or television stations broadcast?

Cowperson

[Cowperson]

Cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a terrorist are deeply offensive, but so is the violent reaction to the drawings from Islamic extremists, Canadian Muslims said Thursday.

“The protests in the Middle East have proven that the cartoonist was right,” said Tarek Fatah, a director of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

“It's falling straight into that trap of being depicted as a violent people and proving the point that, yes, we are.”

An astute observation.

Other reaction in Canada at the link below including from many of the major newspapers explaining why they will not publish them.

The caricatures were posted on a Canadian satirical website.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../BNStory/Front

The Washington Post with a lengthy look at the controversy and the issue of press freedom.

But critics argued that publishers should be more discerning in the battles they choose over freedom of expression. "This is the sort of thing that will feed into al Qaeda, alienating and angering a lot of educated young people," Najam Sethi, editor of Pakistan's Daily Times and Friday Times, said in a telephone interview from Lahore.

Sethi and others see a double standard at work. "People who question some of the facts of the Holocaust are ostracized; most publishers are so sensitive they won't even get into the argument," Sethi said. "A degree of censorship is imposed that is not articulated in this case."

International journalist organizations have condemned the threats of violence against the European journalists who published the cartoons.

"We defend unpopular speech around the world all the time," said Joel Simon, deputy director of the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists. "We don't make judgments whether we agree or disagree" with the message. "Sometimes we sort of have to hold our nose, but they've got the right to say that, and we defend their right."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020202720.html

Cowperson

[Flame Of Liberty]

And how about that chief editor (France Soir) who was fired by the owner of the paper ("incidentally," the owner is Egyptian) after he published those cartoons because he reckons that "France honors freedom of speech." I am sorry but I had to laugh when I heard that one. France was so much hell bent to be politically correct and tolerant towards "other cultures" that their own values and culture in their own country are now flushed down the toilet. Way to go there, multiculturalists.

Have you guys heard that story from France where charity groups serving pork soup (traditional french cuisine) to homeless people were locked up and the soup was seized because "serving pork soup is discriminatory towards muslim"? It would be funny if it wasnt tragic.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Have you guys heard that story from France where charity groups serving pork soup (traditional french cuisine) to homeless people were locked up and the soup was seized because "serving pork soup is discriminatory towards muslim"? It would be funny if it wasnt tragic.

The "soup" might have been a deliberate campaign by right wing extremists to offend Muslims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4644766.stm

Cowperson

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The "soup" might have been a deliberate campaign by right wing extremists to offend Muslims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4644766.stm

Cowperson

If they were serving the soup in front of a mosque in Mecca, then maybe.

They were offereing a _french_ soup in _France_.

Are you a right wing extremist when you serve pork soup? Todays liberal media use that label way too loosely. You dont like the soup - you dont eat it. Where is the insult in that?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

But critics argued that publishers should be more discerning in the battles they choose over freedom of expression. "This is the sort of thing that will feed into al Qaeda, alienating and angering a lot of educated young people," Najam Sethi, editor of Pakistan's Daily Times and Friday Times, said in a telephone interview from Lahore.

See, that is the sort of thinking - lets stop doing it, because it might upset the bad guys. Lets stop hunting criminals down, well because they may get offended. Lets stop campaings against domestic violence, well because wife abusers may get upset.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

See, that is the sort of thinking - lets stop doing it, because it might upset the bad guys.

Muslims are "bad guys?"

I keep looking back at this comment I posted earlier today:

“The protests in the Middle East have proven that the cartoonist was right,” said Tarek Fatah, a director of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

“It's falling straight into that trap of being depicted as a violent people and proving the point that, yes, we are.”

I think what its proving is that religion and government shouldn't be mixed . . . . . this probably wouldn't be getting anywhere if ambassadors weren't being recalled and governments weren't passing resolutions condemning it.

Does this kind of incident alter your opinion of Muslims and if so, favourably or unfavourably?

Cowperson

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

See, that is the sort of thinking - lets stop doing it, because it might upset the bad guys. Lets stop hunting criminals down, well because they may get offended. Lets stop campaings against domestic violence, well because wife abusers may get upset.

You shouldn't stop doing it, but going to the opposite extreme probobly doesn't help either. One method ignores a problem, one method escalates it.
The goal is to address issues without creating further dissent. Some control and restraint may be helpful sometimes.
Is it really necessary to publish images of mohammed with a bomb shaped turban?
That sort if thing is surely gonna make a bad situation worse, so why do it?

I don't understand your comparisons to criminals. The cartoons aren't aimed at criminal muslims. They are aimed at all Muslims.
It's not upseting the "bad guys" that is the concern. It's creating more bad guys by upseting the innocent guys.