Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Three police officers in NC caught on audio saying they can't wait to start slaughtering black people:



https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...ersation-about

What the hell is wrong with those people?!

[81MC]

I’m not certain this is the most fitting place for this thought, or the best time, but no sense derailing another thread.

Wendy Mesley has been shamed for having the audacity as a journalist to... say the title of a book? And now we find out she... quoted another journalist during a discussion in the very topic?

Please tell me this is a perversion of a mindset, and not the end goal of of social justice.

[GGG]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5627424

I don’t really have an issue with her being disciplined based on the article above.

[#-3]

When I was 15 I had a knot book, and used to tie different knots as something of a fidget toy while I watched TV. The noose was almost certainly the first one I learnt because of name recognition more than anything. I could still probably remember 2-3 dozen knots including a noose (although I can't remember that exact number of wraps a proper noose should have). The Monkey Fist quickly became my favorite, harder to do well, and basically a nunchuck style weapon when done well. I also used to tie nooses out of shoe laces for the punk rock kids to hang off their clothes in high school, because they thought it made them look edgy.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I’m not certain this is the most fitting place for this thought, or the best time, but no sense derailing another thread.

Wendy Mesley has been shamed for having the audacity as a journalist to... say the title of a book? And now we find out she... quoted another journalist during a discussion in the very topic?

Please tell me this is a perversion of a mindset, and not the end goal of of social justice.

“The title of a book” is a fairly watered down way of avoiding what she said. We all know the word, we all know you don’t use the word. That’s not new or a sudden change or some “perversion of a mindset.” The reason she shouldn’t use the word is the same reason you didn’t, and the same reason that even if you typed it out here in an appropriate context, the censor would block it.

She said a word that people find universally offensive and apologised for it. No hate behind it, but guilty of being careless, for sure. I’m not sure what you’re getting at, you’re honestly surprised the N word upset somebody?

[PsYcNeT]

She said it twice, actually.

First time, yeah seems like maybe she was careless, second time, you have to assume that at best she's being needlessly edgy and provocative.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

She said it twice, actually.

First time, yeah seems like maybe she was careless, second time, you have to assume that at best she's being needlessly edgy and provocative.

Most likely she thinks it was ok because she's a journalist quoting someone.

I think it's the only word in the English language that can't ever be uttered by people of a certain race without being considered offensive. Not everyone understands that and they feel that if they're not being racist then it's ok. Context should matter, but it doesn't with that word because it's such a powerful symbol of hate.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“The title of a book” is a fairly watered down way of avoiding what she said. We all know the word, we all know you don’t use the word. That’s not new or a sudden change or some “perversion of a mindset.” The reason she shouldn’t use the word is the same reason you didn’t, and the same reason that even if you typed it out here in an appropriate context, the censor would block it.

She said a word that people find universally offensive and apologised for it. No hate behind it, but guilty of being careless, for sure. I’m not sure what you’re getting at, you’re honestly surprised the N word upset somebody?

Nah man, I didn’t use ‘the word’ because ‘the word’ is immaterial to what I’m saying. The book she was talking about is apparently titled “White ######s of America”, is that better?

There’s also a book called “######s, This is Canada”. Do you think it’s morally just to ignore the authors chosen title because the word is uncomfortable? Or when a Nigerian man writes a gritty story, is that not maybe a poignant title?

This isn’t even a matter of context, at all. We could debate the veracity of the book in question, or whether it’s an effective title (although it quite clearly is), but that is also of no importance. A journalist, doing her job, referred to a piece of writing by its name.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but I’m not a fan of the path this is setting down.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

If it’s a song title or a book title I think you should say it. It’d be worse to avoid it and use some lame cop out like n-word. But maybe now isn’t the best time to fight that fight.

[flylock shox]

A complete ban on any utterance of a word - any word - doesn't rob the word of its power, it recognizes it.



A complete ban on only certain races of people uttering a word - any word - doesn't eliminate racial division, it exemplifies it.



A complete ban on uttering a word - or a class of words - in a work context is... generally okay, if for no other reason than it's a matter of professionalism and a courtesy to one's co-workers.



In this particular context, I don't have a great deal of difficulty with the CBC's response to this situation (though I think there's a case to be made that even in a work meeting a journalist must be able to accurately quote or cite material, regardless of whether others in the meeting may find the subject matter offensive).



I have deep concerns, however, with the broader concept of speech censorship on the basis that some will find the speech offensive regardless of the context in which it is used. That crosses a very dangerous line IMO.

[Swift]

I mean if the word in any context whatsoever is offensive, then the books should be banned from bookshelves for fear of someone seeing them and being offended, no? Both books are for sale on Amazon right now. One is by a white guy and one by a black guy. Are both titles racist for automatically using the word? Or just the book by the white guy?

If it's racist to just say the title of either book, then it must also be racist to type it, no? Is the person who listed it on Amazon racist for typing it? How should we refer to these books if the title isn't allowed to be said?

If an actor says the word in the context of a play or film, is that racist? If not, why is it racist for a journalist to say it in a journalistic context? If a professor quotes a racist or anti-Semitic passage from a text, should they be reprimanded or fired?

Just some questions to illustrate how ridiculous all of this is.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by 81MC

There’s also a book called “######s, This is Canada”. Do you think it’s morally just to ignore the authors chosen title because the word is uncomfortable? Or when a Nigerian man writes a gritty story, is that not maybe a poignant title?

Just want to point out: authors have almost zero say in the titles of their books. Titles are chosen by publishers. You need to have some pretty serious clout as a writer to get to pick your own title.

[PepsiFree]

I think you guys are making a pretty big leap between “lady says a universally offensive word appropriate in context and offends someone” to “lady is labelled racist and books will be banned!”

You guys can hoot and holler the word all you want. But don’t be dumb and think even in the proper context you wont offend someone, because not everyone is going to know the context. #### happens. Go talk about the book at your work and see what happens. It’s not the end of the world if you upset someone because they’re not on the same page as you, but it does happen. And with the n-word, it’s gonna happen.

Some of you guys just can’t resist jumping head first down the slippery slope you set out. Who is saying the word isn’t allowed to be said in any context? Who is saying she should be fired? Not anyone here. Who y’all arguing with? Books should be banned because they might offend someone?.... what??

[Acey]

This is all dumb. She shouldn't be cancelled over this. YouTubers now getting cancelled because they made a skit with a fake tan in 2009 is dumb. This is all so incredibly dumb and getting catastrophically away from the issues that actually matter.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Acey

This is all dumb. She shouldn't be cancelled over this. YouTubers now getting cancelled because they made a skit with a fake tan in 2009 is dumb. This is all so incredibly dumb and getting catastrophically away from the issues that actually matter.

If you’re referring to Jenna Marbles is seems like she has reflected on herself and not been pleased, so she is voluntarily stepping back.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

If you’re referring to Jenna Marbles is seems like she has reflected on herself and not been pleased, so she is voluntarily stepping back.

Yeah but it wouldn't have gotten to this point if people had not been scrolling back to 2011 try to find stuff to cancel her over. I dunno, I just feel like Jenna Marbles putting on spray tan and (rightfully) making fun of Nicki Minaj is so far down the list of things that could ever conceivably make me angry, though I understand that I don't get to tell other black people what offends them.

Then I wake up and see The Dixie Chicks are now "The Chicks". Good lord. They had to preemptively do that to not get cancelled. My cousin has been a Dixie Chicks fan for as long as I can remember, has been to many of their shows, and now she's erased 10 years of her fandom to jump on Facebook this morning saying how their name was always unacceptable and offensive.

I just hate everything right now.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Acey

Then I wake up and see The Dixie Chicks are now "The Chicks". Good lord. They had to preemptively do that to not get cancelled. My cousin has been a Dixie Chicks fan for as long as I can remember, has been to many of their shows, and now she's erased 10 years of her fandom to jump on Facebook this morning saying how their name was always unacceptable and offensive.

I just hate everything right now.

As a middle-aged white guy who used to watch the dukes of hazard and is a dixie chicks fan, I appreciate the education I have received from this whole thing. I never understood the flag issue and did not realize how offensive it is to some people. I now understand that. I probably would not have if not for everything that has happened. I assume the Chicks went through a similar process, if starting from a different point, to come to the same conclusion and did what they thought was right. Some will dismiss that as crass commercialism but I think they have a track record to support the 'legitimacy' of their actions.

On a possibly humorous side note, the breeder for our dog named the puppies after country music acts. Ours was actually named Shania but we like the name Dixie Chicks better and so named her Dixie. Tug collar, awkward face emoji. We will not be re-naming her.

p.s. I just looked up the meaning of dixie on wiki and had I known this I would not have named my dog that. If I had a business or band I would DEFINITELY not name it that.

[GGG]

The n-word has such a simple solution for white people.

Don’t say it. Don’t judge black people who choose to say it.

Then people cry “that’s racist”

That’s good, it’s good for you white person of privilege to experience something that you can’t do because of your skin colour. Think about how that arbitrary restriction makes you feel and if it really bothers you eliminate the racist things in the world and when that is done we will come back and deal with the inequality that you can’t say the N-word.

A top 100 most powerful person in Canada is not the person who gets to decide whether her use of the word in taking away its power in a meeting with subordinates. It’s simple white people Dont use it

[puckhog]

Originally Posted by Acey

Yeah but it wouldn't have gotten to this point if people had not been scrolling back to 2011 try to find stuff to cancel her over. I dunno, I just feel like Jenna Marbles putting on spray tan and (rightfully) making fun of Nicki Minaj is so far down the list of things that could ever conceivably make me angry, though I understand that I don't get to tell other black people what offends them.

Then I wake up and see The Dixie Chicks are now "The Chicks". Good lord. They had to preemptively do that to not get cancelled. My cousin has been a Dixie Chicks fan for as long as I can remember, has been to many of their shows, and now she's erased 10 years of her fandom to jump on Facebook this morning saying how their name was always unacceptable and offensive.

I just hate everything right now.

I agree that some of the conversation has deteriorated into a combination of virtue signaling and "cancel" culture. And I certainly agree that those things can get in the way of considering the actual intent behind actions. It's pretty easy for an organization to post some virtuous words and then do nothing to actually fix their contribution to the issue. Or, on the flip side, for people to railroad someone for a questionable past action that didn't really have racist intent. In those instances, I think it's much better to educate rather than "cancel" the person.

However, I think there's still good conversation occurring. For instance, this post from earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by Acey

The first girl I really liked in high school, her dad ended up sitting me down to tell me I couldn't see the daughter anymore because mom wasn't comfortable with it. He was as nice as he could possibly be about it and I respect him for that, but boy that one really hurt. I cried for a long time. That was 2006... not even that long ago. That's the only time in my life where there were thoughts in my head that I didn't want to be black anymore.

For whatever reason, this has stuck with me - I felt so bad for younger Acey. Part of it is probably because my wife and I just had a daughter (now 8 months old) and this made me stop and think. We had played some of the "what if" games (what if she's gay or trans - how would we react to show that we love and support her). But your post put the question in my mind of "how would I react if our daughter brings home someone from another race?" And, boy, do I ever not want to make some kid feel the way you did, or even just a bit uncomfortable (at least not beyond the normal nerves of meeting your girlfriend's dad).

Similarly, I watched the Chappelle video and that also really stuck with me.

This type of sharing perspectives and experiences is a good thing. It's made people like me think a bit deeper about these issues and our own contributions to them. I hope there's more of that going forward and less of the superficial statements/sniping.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I’m not certain this is the most fitting place for this thought, or the best time, but no sense derailing another thread.

Wendy Mesley has been shamed for having the audacity as a journalist to... say the title of a book? And now we find out she... quoted another journalist during a discussion in the very topic?

Please tell me this is a perversion of a mindset, and not the end goal of of social justice.

What gets me about the Mesley incident is that none of her peers in the media stood up for her, even though I'd wager the great majority of them saw nothing at all wrong with what she did and could easily have done the same thing.

The danger is not the zealots. The danger is all the people who acquiesce to zealotry out of cowardice.