[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I am mid 20s, so if you're referring to anything before the 2000s, I was not alive for any of that.

Oh…we had NO idea of your age … {rolls eyes until they bleed}.

[Sec214]

FWIW other organizations think Calgary did really well. I’ll share some texts.

“Craig just added more bullets. Boston dropped the ball by letting it sneak out”

“Their rebuild is stacked for the next couple of years + and you still got Naz,Blake,Mac to go and the best floor contract in NHL LOL”

“We weren’t moving anything more then offered because we think he’s closer to last year then repeating this level long term - sick work by the hockey ops group - I like the deal”

“Craig and co did so good, so many picks you can take more risks and it’s okay to miss, our scouts are jealous. And they’ve got a few home runs already not playing pro”

[AC]

^So it sounds like at least the perception is that Weegar is available?

"still got Naz, Blake,Mac to go"

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

One thing I'll say... Conroy is pissed about the not being willing to sign anywhere thing.

He says he respects that, but you know he absolutely pissed.

He's probably been working with teams on Rasmus list for weeks now on trying to get the best deals with an extension, and then they just undercut him today midway through the process.

Conroy being so open and transparent about that makes you know he's pissed about it.

Take it as a lesson learned. If the player is likely not in the long term plans for the team (i.e. 4+ years from now)… trade them early. Make that the policy going forward. I think most would agree Coleman and Kadri fit into that category. This has happened twice now with the same team. It can’t happen again.

I think you will likely have the exact same issue with Coleman if he is not traded this season… he’ll probably only want to go to Dallas or Tampa. Teams might pay a premium for Coleman this year because they’ll get two playoff runs from him.

I don’t know the market for Coleman. NHL insiders say at least 20 teams are interested and would really value him. Does that mean a 1st round pick? If so, go for it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by AC

^So it sounds like at least the perception is that Weegar is available?

"still got Naz, Blake,Mac to go"

I noticed that too.

Having Whitecloud on the roster makes it a lot more feasible to trade Weegar. A blue line where the most experienced guy in the top 4 is Bahl would be scary.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Sec214

FWIW other organizations think Calgary did really well. I’ll share some texts.

“Craig just added more bullets. Boston dropped the ball by letting it sneak out”

“Their rebuild is stacked for the next couple of years + and you still got Naz,Blake,Mac to go and the best floor contract in NHL LOL”

“We weren’t moving anything more then offered because we think he’s closer to last year then repeating this level long term - sick work by the hockey ops group - I like the deal”

“Craig and co did so good, so many picks you can take more risks and it’s okay to miss, our scouts are jealous. And they’ve got a few home runs already not playing pro”

Best floor contract?

[mile]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Best floor contract?

Huberdeau

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Why'd we get a D and not that big winger Wozniak.

We're fine at D. We just graduated three good ones and have Mews yet to come.

I like the picks but I don't really like the prospects we've taken from Vegas in either of the last two deals. Unless there's something special about Wiebe that I don't know about.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Why'd we get a D and not that big winger Wozniak.

We're fine at D. We just graduated three good ones and have Mews yet to come.

Because they didn’t want to give him to us?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Why'd we get a D and not that big winger Wozniak.

Because Vegas had to move out a roster player and his cap hit, that's why. Trading Wozniak would not help them make the cap this year, and wouldn't help the Flames ice a full roster this year.

Plus, as Tbull said, they didn't want to. I like Wozniak a lot, and I think the Knights do too.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Because Vegas had to move out a roster player and his cap hit, that's why. Trading Wozniak would not help them make the cap this year, and wouldn't help the Flames ice a full roster this year.

Plus, as Tbull said, they didn't want to. I like Wozniak a lot, and I think the Knights do too.

Regardless, trading a prospect they like should have been the Vegas tax.

And now we have to cheer for those pukes to win it all to improve the package.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Why'd we get a D and not that big winger Wozniak.

We're fine at D. We just graduated three good ones and have Mews yet to come.

I like the picks but I don't really like the prospects we've taken from Vegas in either of the last two deals. Unless there's something special about Wiebe that I don't know about.

I mean does whitecloud for the next couple of seasons at 2.75 or whatever really hurt the kids, no? If he gets bumped he turns into a 6-7 and/or gets moved. He plays hard minute against top players albeit poorly but it’s liveable. He’s a mountain of a man and tough as nails and doesn’t take a lot of #### penalties.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

The more I think about, Vegas being the team to get him sours me the most.

what if he was traded to the oilers

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Why'd we get a D and not that big winger Wozniak.

We're fine at D. We just graduated three good ones and have Mews yet to come.

I like the picks but I don't really like the prospects we've taken from Vegas in either of the last two deals. Unless there's something special about Wiebe that I don't know about.

Because the Flames will get a better return for a cheap RHD at the TDL?

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

One thing I'll say... Conroy is pissed about the not being willing to sign anywhere thing.

He says he respects that, but you know he absolutely pissed.

He's probably been working with teams on Rasmus list for weeks now on trying to get the best deals with an extension, and then they just undercut him today midway through the process.

Conroy being so open and transparent about that makes you know he's pissed about it.

Makes me wonder about (ahem)…”tampering”…which apparently fits Vegas’ style. Now…what is needed is proof.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You mean the Rasmus that everybody wanted to get rid of because he was a –38 that season and a bunch of you thought he was washed up?

How would that Rasmus have got a better return than this?

I just don’t buy that. Andersson is a player is his prime. A known commodity. GM’s would know he was having a bad season but that the tools and skills are all still there. The poor plus minus only would have downgraded Anderson to a level on par with Carlo; otherwise Andersson is a superior player in every facet of the game.

I have no doubt that Treliving would have paid the same price and maybe even a little more that was paid for Carlo. I am sure that one day, Conroy will reveal that the Carlo return was first offered for Andersson.

If GM’s were so “what have you done lately”, then the Flams won’t be getting any offers for Kadri.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

it's a decent package, just looking at it through Vegas-tinted glasses makes me nitpick it.

It's better than the Hanifin deal at the very least. Quite a bit better.

[stemit14]

So here’s my attempt at the best version of this trade playing out:

Vegas beats Edmonton in the playoffs with Andersson playing a significant role.
Vegas wins the cup.
Flames draft the Ruck twins with the Vegas 1st (31st overall) and their own 2nd in the 2026 draft.
Vegas begins to tumble starting next year and the flames get the 11th overall pick from them in the 2027 draft.
Vegas bottoms out in 2027-2028 due to their aging core and ends up giving the flames a top 5 pick in 2028.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not enamoured about this trade. I also don't think it is bad.


I pegged Anderson's value as that of a 1st + 2nd + B Prospect. I think I have been consistent there. Did the Flames get it? Not yet.


The prospect is a 7th round pick who is probably a long-shot at having an NHL career. You never say never, but this seems more like a Joni Jurmo than a Hunter Brzustewicz to me.


So the Flames get a 1st, a conditional 2nd (which is better than a 2nd, but playing the field means that this is very low odds of turning into a 1st), plus a bit of a wildcard here is Whitecloud.


What is his value, really? Is it another 2nd? If so, my stance turns to "Good trade". Can the Flames get a 1st for him? If so, this is a fantastic trade - 2 firsts, a 2nd with low potential of turning into another first, and a long-shot prospect? That looks like the type of trade I would rank as an A - or in this case, a Home Run Win.


Even if Whitecloud turns out to be a 3rd or less on the trade market (which I doubt - I think he will be around a 2nd round pick) - this trade still has potential. Flames can knock it out of the park with grabbing another Gridin-level prospect with the first, and a Basha-level in the 2nd... maybe they can use the picks to jump up in the draft. There are possibilities there.


I personally have the valuation of this right now as that of a modest loss as it stands today. There isn't any reason to hate it, but it is difficult to not feel a little disappointed with it. I have seen Whitecloud lots, and he is 'fine'. If the Flames were competing and they had a hole on the right side, I would be 100% ok with them throwing a 2nd round pick at him to fill that spot. However, I would not be happy if they gave a 1st for him, so I doubt he will get a first.


I will say this, however - while I agree that although Whitecloud is 29 and should be 'what he is', give a defencemen a different partner in a different system with slightly different deployment, and he will look vastly different. You don't have to look far at all to see how good the Flames have been for Hanley's "development" who was much older. He may end up shining in Calgary's lineup, or maybe takes a step back too. Point is that there is some potential here.


So while I still 100% stand behind my 'modest loss' rating on this, there is a lot within this trade that can drastically alter it with some hindsight. This isn't the Gilmour trade all over again, that's for sure. There was no way from the start that the Gilmour trade would have warped into Calgary's favour over time, even if I did like some of the pieces coming back in it.


Finally, however you think about this trade, what we should do is take a step back and realize one thing that I myself am backtracking on. I had wrote in a previous post that this isn't a rental trade for Vegas. Of course we all know that Vegas will re-sign Rasmus, and I bet he signs at a discount too. However, from Calgary's perspective, they had no choice in the matter. Rasmus took away the control completely. That's his right and I don't necessarily blame him, but the instant he and his rotten agent did that it essentially capped the returns and the number of teams still interested. From that perspective, it is lucky that this wasn't a Hanifin-type of return. Calgary managed to get a few more pieces in this deal unlike the Hanifin deal, plus Wiebe has a longer runway than Miromanov (assuming he signs - I would find it strange to see him turn down a contract offer from the Flames as he may not get another from anyone else when he leaves the NCAA, right?).


Slightly disappointing today, potential home run tomorrow, so let's just see what happens here.


The biggest hit with this trade today is for that 2026 pick to devalue. With Vegas sitting at 8 right now, I guess it doesn't much matter. Hopefully Whitecloud was a 'glue guy' in the room and now that team stumbles, just like the Flames after trading Ference for Stuart. Either way, I doubt they sink much in the standings, but I also doubt that they win a cup - seems like two extremes to me, but here's hoping that they faceplant.

[868904]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Doesn’t matter. If by some chance Vegas does as poorly as Toronto this year this trade is still bad because Minten is a high end prospect in a position the flames lack.

Whitecloud is a -8 on a team with a +16 goal differential, is 29 years old (doesn’t fit the rebuild timeline), has 7 points this year and plays a position that we already possess a ton of middling players at.

Minten WAS not and is not now a high end prospect. He's a B prospect at best with very pedestrian junior stats. He’s performed well this year but I still have a hard time seeing him being anything more than a 3rd line centre.