[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[memphusk]

Yep. ####ty trade and stuck with the plug for the rest of his career. Is Huberdeau on pace for his worst season as a Flame?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you want people to respect your more critical view of things, which is more than fair, then perhaps respect those that have a more optimistic view (e.g. don't call them homers).

Don't do to others, what you dislike being done to yourself.

Exactly. Going the other way I can't stand when Bingo and others always use the "negative crowd" term when referring to a group, meant to diminish opinions they don't want to hear, aka negative, frustrated talk. "Of course the negative crowd will probably say....".

No, just respond to each poster as his/her own. It's frustrating to read.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Would have worked out if Huberdeau was flipped for futures or a blue chip prospect. But we signed him to the big contract and decided to go for immediate success. It didn't work out. It's hockey, things like this happen. The important thing is that (hopefully) a lesson was learned.

Yeah. I think we could have gotten a 1st+ A level prospect for Huberdeau as a flip, and maybe even Weegar for two 2nds or something like that. Then its like 3 firsts 2 seconds for Tka####. Keep the Monahan pick and you're now way ahead on the rebuild we're going through anyway.

[FireGilbert]

Did this get bumped in response to Vancouver’s Hughes return?

Sure Florida won the trade and Huberdeau should have been flipped, but this doesn’t even crack the top 10 of bad Flames trades.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah. I think we could have gotten a 1st+ A level prospect for Huberdeau as a flip, and maybe even Weegar for two 2nds or something like that. Then its like 3 firsts 2 seconds for Tka####. Keep the Monahan pick and you're now way ahead on the rebuild we're going through anyway.

Kadri doesn't sign here if no Huberdeau though...Kadri is likely to net a 1st plus at some point IMO

Weegar could get you a first right now

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Did this get bumped in response to Vancouver’s Hughes return?

Sure Florida won the trade and Huberdeau should have been flipped, but this doesn’t even crack the top 10 of bad Flames trades.

I mean, it's kinda up there on the list when you take into account bridging him so we could keep Frolik. Instead of doing that, we could have locked him up for max term, made him the Captain and built the entire franchise around him. The trade iself wouldn't be on the list, but the fact we allowed the situation to happen in the first place definitely should be.


(in before the "he wanted to wear flip-flops to work" garbage. he had STL and COL on the list of detinations he gave Tree, and there are no year-round flip-flops in Colorado or Missouri)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I mean, it's kinda up there on the list when you take into account bridging him so we could keep Frolik. Instead of doing that, we could have locked him up for max term, made him the Captain and built the entire franchise around him. The trade iself wouldn't be on the list, but the fact we allowed the situation to happen in the first place definitely should be.


(in before the "he wanted to wear flip-flops to work" garbage. he had STL and COL on the list of detinations he gave Tree, and there are no year-round flip-flops in Colorado or Missouri)

He's from St. Louis, and Colorado was the champ.

Tkachuk wasn't into max term either. His idea of long term started at 5 years.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its too early to say if they are old? lol they are...3rd oldest in the league. They might have a couple runs left to be fair but then its Penguins/Hawks city.

I have never said they were out of it, all I said is they are going to be in the bubble. It was a homer take to suggest otherwise.

You and your LOL Panther takes, man, it's hilarious. Three straight Cup finals appearances and two straight Stanley Cup appearance, with twO major injuries a Stanley Cup hangover this season and only a self hating Flames fan or Panther homer would consider them contenders to start at the start of the season.

You're always predicting their downfall, irrelevance and Tkachuk's lack of being an elite superstar. The only thing that cooled you off their trail was their past two finals opponents. Now you're back on the train, full time!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Once again ... labels.

If a person is a bought and sold homer it should be easy to deal with said person in the realm of facts.

Weak sauce to label the opposing position to minimize it.

Originally Posted by Bingo

No I'm not.

I don't have a need to degrade opposing positions by labeling them.

You doubled down with "uninteresting".

You absolutely throw labels around in the other direction. Like no worries, we all do it from time to time, but you're very prone to labelling posters and perceived groups of posters as various labels of "the negative crowd" when you don't like what's being said from the negative/frustrated side of things. You are always okay with, and never criticize the homer/always optimistic posters for the same issues.

Again, it's all good, most posters do it in some way towards the "other side" depending on how they feel about the team and management/ownership. But weird to see it laid out as a criticism against labeling when you are definitely guilty of it quite often, lol.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You absolutely throw labels around in the other direction. Like no worries, we all do it from time to time, but you're very prone to labelling posters and perceived groups of posters as various labels of "the negative crowd" when you don't like what's being said from the negative/frustrated side of things. You are always okay with, and never criticize the homer/always optimistic posters for the same issues.

Again, it's all good, most posters do it in some way towards the "other side" depending on how they feel about the team and management/ownership. But weird to see it laid out as a criticism against labeling when you are definitely guilty of it quite often, lol.

Some people say the negative crowd which makes me laugh, because personally I see it more as "the grounded in reality crowd". When you have 2 playoff wins in 20 years, I think as a fan you should be allowed to be negative.

I did laugh because I saw one poster say it was "team tank" vs "team 12th overall pick". When some people were cheering for wins. The labels are pretty funny and biased depending on your view point.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You and your LOL Panther takes, man, it's hilarious. Three straight Cup finals appearances and two straight Stanley Cup appearance, with twO major injuries a Stanley Cup hangover this season and only a self hating Flames fan or Panther homer would consider them contenders to start at the start of the season.

You're always predicting their downfall, irrelevance and Tkachuk's lack of being an elite superstar. The only thing that cooled you off their trail was their past two finals opponents. Now you're back on the train, full time!

I am well aware of their injuries...that was the entire point. Some posters (probably you) thought they would easily make the playoffs without Barkov.

But no you are totally right they aren't the 3rd oldest team in the league they are just going to be good forever like all those other teams that stayed at the top for a decades on end in the cap era. Tkachuk is an awesome skater, rarely injured, and takes care of is body really well...he is going to be a great player into his 40s.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Some people say the negative crowd which makes me laugh, because personally I see it more as "the grounded in reality crowd". When you have 2 playoff wins in 20 years, I think as a fan you should be allowed to be negative.

I did laugh because I saw one poster say it was "team tank" vs "team 12th overall pick". When some people were cheering for wins. The labels are pretty funny and biased depending on your view point.

You think what we cheer for has some effect on the outcome of the game

[Itse]

This trade was still good even in retrospect, and pretty close to being one of the best thing Treliving did here.

As I said at the time, it was good "given the situation".

This trade was never the problem or even a problem. We got a first line winger, a youngish top 4 D-man and a 1st round pick, that's a good haul.

While I get the impulse and I kinda love the drama driven dedication of digging up old threads like this (seriously, I think it's highly entertaining and not even in a bad way), I have to say this thread means basically nothing on its own.

This trade was a good trade.

It was the overall situation fully created by Treliving that was the problem
- Signing Chucky to a 3-year bridge deal. It should be emphasized that Tkachuk wanted a longer deal with the Flames at that point, it was Treliving who talked him into a short deal. Lots of people had mixed feelings about this, although there were cap circumstances that made it kinda make sense... except of course Treliving had also created those cap circumstances by signing Troy Brouwer and James Neal (the former at this point being already bought out with 1.5M left, and the latter traded for Milan Lucic and his 5.25M contract.)

- Signing Gaudreau to a 6-year deal. This was criticized by a lot of people at the time of signing, and people immediately pointed out that you need to trade him or re-sign him when the time comes. Of course Treliving did neither

- Letting Gaudreau walk. This was really the big one that destroyed the team both mentally and in terms of assets, and just an unforgivable screwup by Treliving. Yes there were circumstances because the team was doing well, but again they were extremely foreseeable circumstances that lots of people had pointed out way in advance. There was even a poll about re-sign or trade Johnny with 37% voting for trade.

- Signing Huberdau to a massive contract prematurely. Now, if you actually want to criticize CP for not seeing a problem, this is much better target than the trade itself. There was time to wait for Huberdeau play a bit before signing him, but Treliving had created so much drama around the team that he felt pressured to immediately "win the trade". Had he waited a month, Huberdeau would either have been traded too, (and likely would have gotten a good haul again as teams would have likely looked at his points as anomalous or result of "not fitting in"), or signed to a much better contract.

This was the Treliving pattern: making flashy short term but bad or at least potentially bad long-term moves, driven by immediate circumstances he had created by his own previous bad moves and/or his lack of foresight.

His ability to make flashy/good short term moves like this trade was why he was so well-liked at the time, and why it took time before people started to sour on him.

[devo22]

Good summary. What I will add is that, at the time, there was this narrative that players didn''t want to play in Calgary. Gaudreau had walked, Tkachuk had asked for a trade. Several key UFAs were already on the horizon. I think immediately re-signing Huberdeau and Weegar was more than "winning the trade", I think Tre and the whole organization needed a long-term commitment from the two new players to counter the "Calgary is not attractive" narrative. Then they signed Kadri, too. After losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk, getting three long-term commitments from big names was important for the franchise at the time. It didn't work out, but I get what they were trying to do.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by devo22

Good summary. What I will add is that, at the time, there was this narrative that players didn''t want to play in Calgary. Gaudreau had walked, Tkachuk had asked for a trade. Several key UFAs were already on the horizon. I think immediately re-signing Huberdeau and Weegar was more than "winning the trade", I think Tre and the whole organization needed a long-term commitment from the two new players to counter the "Calgary is not attractive" narrative. Then they signed Kadri, too. After losing Gaudreau and Tkachuk, getting three long-term commitments from big names was important for the franchise at the time. It didn't work out, but I get what they were trying to do.

Yes, the trade and signings need to be understood in the context of people across the NHL asking why nobody wants to play in Calgary. The whole organization was desperate to change that narrative.

I think that anxiety still shapes the team’s decisions, including the reported reluctance to trade Kadri and Coleman.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/604...g-blockbuster/

Crazy thing is, the Flames also lost the #2 blockbuster trade of the previous 25 years (Gilmour).

[Jason14h]

There's an equally good chance in a few years the Hughes trade is looked back on as a disaster as well.

When you are trading a superstar for 'parts' it usually turns out bad in the long run no matter how good those parts look at first

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

There's an equally good chance in a few years the Hughes trade is looked back on as a disaster as well.

When you are trading a superstar for 'parts' it usually turns out bad in the long run no matter how good those parts look at first

I don't think most people would qualify Buium as just "parts". Sure, it wasn't a hockey trade, but those are increasingly rare in this league, especially for a player of Hughes' caliber.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

There's an equally good chance in a few years the Hughes trade is looked back on as a disaster as well.

When you are trading a superstar for 'parts' it usually turns out bad in the long run no matter how good those parts look at first

Thinking positively, two exceptions!

Nieuwendyk for Iginla+
Fleury for Regehr+

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't think most people would qualify Buium as just "parts". Sure, it wasn't a hockey trade, but those are increasingly rare in this league, especially for a player of Hughes' caliber.

Buium is not a part of the trade return?