Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Cte is the common thing

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Yamer

The 80 Battles of Alberta were also between the 2 best teams in the league condensed into a single corridor of Highway 2.

I would venture a guess that what made those battles so epic had less to do with the blood spilled and more to do with fierce competition.

This is absolutely true. On the other hand, the fierce competition was what led to the blood being spilled. Those mostly weren't staged fights; the teams genuinely hated each other. I'm not sure you could have had that level of intensity without somebody popping their cork and throwing punches at some point.

The game is a lot more genteel now, and the actual hockey play is more entertaining. The designated face-puncher on every team was fun to watch for 30 seconds during those games when he got into a fight, but highly uninteresting the rest of the time. I like it when every player on a team actually has the skills to deserve a roster spot.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Cte is the common thing

Correct also.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

This is absolutely true. On the other hand, the fierce competition was what led to the blood being spilled. Those mostly weren't staged fights; the teams genuinely hated each other. I'm not sure you could have had that level of intensity without somebody popping their cork and throwing punches at some point.

The game is a lot more genteel now, and the actual hockey play is more entertaining. The designated face-puncher on every team was fun to watch for 30 seconds during those games when he got into a fight, but highly uninteresting the rest of the time. I like it when every player on a team actually has the skills to deserve a roster spot.

So you're ok with a face puncher with skill?

[D as in David]

Speaking of seatbelts, just imagine the increase in entertainment value for some fans if F1 and other auto sports removed the requirement for them. Live free, racers!

[fotze2]

I had lunch with Todd Fedoruk. Google his face.

Hilarious stories. Was on a goon line, coach called them to go out next. Can’t remember what team. Said they got in crap because none of them moved because none of them could hear out of their right ear.

I don’t like people killing themself for my enjoyment.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by memphusk

So you're ok with a face puncher with skill?

If he has skill, he doesn't need to punch faces for a living. I'm OK with a guy who could be a face puncher but doesn't do it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Speaking of seatbelts, just imagine the increase in entertainment value for some fans if F1 and other auto sports removed the requirement for them. Live free, racers!

You know race drivers don't wear the seat belts that are mandated for the rest of us, right? They wear high-end harnesses (five-pointers the last I heard), because they are not stupid enough to drive without them.

Maybe assuming the people directly involved are too stupid to know what they're doing is not the hill to die on.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Cte is the common thing

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-communi...illed-4-people

Just a few days ago

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You know race drivers don't wear the seat belts that are mandated for the rest of us, right? They wear high-end harnesses (five-pointers the last I heard), because they are not stupid enough to drive without them.

Maybe assuming the people directly involved are too stupid to know what they're doing is not the hill to die on.

Nobody said that so it isn’t really a retort to anything.

NHL players, however, have admitted to fighting just to hold on to a roster spot or fighting because they felt they had to even when they didn’t want to. Fighting being “part of the sport” despite being penalized is what allows that pressure to exist.

I’m not sure what the point of illustrating the difference between a seatbelt and a harness is. We also don’t wear helmets. Pretty irrelevant.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nobody said that so it isn’t really a retort to anything.

Oh, really? Jiri said it right in this thread:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Because players are TERRIBLE at making decisions about their own safety.…

This is not a decision that should be in the hands of the players. They will not protect themselves.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Where did I call them stupid?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Where did I call them stupid?

If you can't make decisions about your own safety, you are acting stupidly, QED.

I'm frankly amazed that you can insult people that blatantly without even being aware that you did it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Because I didn’t call them stupid
Often when people are in position where there is massive incentives such that they are willing to put their own self at risk, they aren’t the right folks to make those judgements
That’s different from being stupid.

Also acting stupidly is different from being stupid
Everyone makes dumb decisions
Doesn’t mean everyone is dumb

[PepsiFree]

A not insignificant number of athletes are notorious for resisting safety changes, even ones we all accept as objectively “good” or “smart” decisions.

It took 15 years between Plante wearing a goalie mask and goalie masks becoming universally adopted.

It took 10+ years between helmets becoming mandatory and helmets being universally adopted.

It’s taken 10+ years between visors becoming mandatory and visors being universally adopted (there are still a couple stragglers).

And we can assume it will take a similarly long time between when neck guards are made mandatory and when they become universally adopted.

These are all safety advancements that are scientifically proven to reduce injuries and, in some cases, death. Even when mandatory and widely adopted, we have ample evidence that given an avenue not to, some of those directly involved do not make the smartest decision and argue against safety improvements. This is very true historically in the NHL, F1, the NBA, the NFL, etc. This does not mean all athletes are “too stupid.” But often there is a lack of education involved:

“I don’t think we should expect any improved leadership from the NHL,” Nowinski said. “They are not going to be leaders on this. This is on the players at this point. I don’t think the players are educated on the consequences of what these head impacts are going to do to them long-term. I doubt very many are aware that 19 of the first 20 NHL players that we have studied have had CTE.

“And I don’t think they understand how bad CTE can be and how much it can affect them. So there is a lack of respect for the brains of their opponents and an appreciation of their (own) brains. And I think people are still willing to try to take out a good player for the other team and take that suspension, and that’s not a culture that good players should want to play in. And so I would encourage them to take learning about CTE very seriously this summer and come and start taking steps to create a safer game. Because right now, if they get CTE, we can’t fix them.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/634...-nhl-playoffs/

If players don’t have all the information, are feeling pressured, or are physically/mentally unable (due to a head injury) of making an educated decision, how are they supposed to make one?

They can be terrible about making these decisions for the reasons above. It doesn’t make them “too stupid.”

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Because I didn’t call them stupid
Often when people are in position where there is massive incentives such that they are willing to put their own self at risk, they aren’t the right folks to make those judgements
That’s different from being stupid.

Also acting stupidly is different from being stupid
Everyone makes dumb decisions
Doesn’t mean everyone is dumb

You believe, and have stated, that they are unfit to make their own decisions. You have arrogated to yourself the authority to make those decisions for them. You have clearly stated your belief that you know better than they do how to conduct their careers and defend their persons.

Arguing whether or not you actually used the word ‘stupid’ is the merest, footling pedantry. You have made it clear that you regard hockey players as intellectually incapable of looking after their own interests, and needing someone to dictate to them what their interests are and how they should be protected from themselves.

I am very glad that you are not in any position of authority over them, or over me. I hope you are not in a position of authority over anyone else. You believe your own righteousness empowers you to dictate other people's lives. I regard that as an abomination.

[sch19lks]

So Barn Burner is a pretty good podcast

I really liked the Julian McKenzie ep

[rogermexico]

Originally Posted by sch19lks

So Barn Burner is a pretty good podcast

I really liked the Julian McKenzie ep

Yeah that was great. The anecdote about Darryl and Backlund's number 11 is fantastic.

[Toast_Man]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Our interview with Sutter goes live at 5:

https://youtu.be/3JwflvM6gyQ?si=VqZhn8js3iSGm0RF

Great interview Scorp! I've been really enjoying the extra content from Back Burner.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You believe, and have stated, that they are unfit to make their own decisions. You have arrogated to yourself the authority to make those decisions for them. You have clearly stated your belief that you know better than they do how to conduct their careers and defend their persons.

Arguing whether or not you actually used the word ‘stupid’ is the merest, footling pedantry. You have made it clear that you regard hockey players as intellectually incapable of looking after their own interests, and needing someone to dictate to them what their interests are and how they should be protected from themselves.

I am very glad that you are not in any position of authority over them, or over me. I hope you are not in a position of authority over anyone else. You believe your own righteousness empowers you to dictate other people's lives. I regard that as an abomination.

Christ almighty.
This is another unhinged jay attack that so many on this site have been subjected to.
Learn to debate people without going off the deep end
I will go back to applying my personal rule not to engage with you.

Let me state my position with clarity
I believe that fighting should be banned because of the risks of CTE and because it is not an important part of the sports
I do not believe players are the right ones to decide if fighting should be allowed or not including because of ample evidence that they won’t always make the right decisions for their own safety. Not because they are stupid.
I am not saying I am the one that should make that decision either. There are experts though whose recommendations should be listened to.

That’s it