Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is funny coming from you as your entire Schtick is saying how bad PP will be. Based on your posting you are voting against PP and not for Carney.

Well are you are freedumb loving mothertrucker?

and why can't it be both? If Turdeau was still in charge you would have been right though.

The U of C should take away the deplorables degree. What a god damn embarrassment to us. For a EFFING CHANGE! hahahahaha. I"m going to miss these 3 word slogans for the morons.

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Not a single point on why PP would make a good PM? I mean it is super hard to come up with something. DoctorFever has taken 6 months and still doesn't have a single point. lol

I don't think he'd make a bad PM per se. If so many think Trump is the ballot question, I think it would be interesting to see how he handles that. Overall I think Trump is Trump and doesn't change regardless of who wins this election hence I am disappointed that is the main theme of this election, but I digress.

If all the polls are correct then we won't see Pierre as PM anyway, so we'll never get to find how good or bad he is at that role.

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by indes

Anecdotal but I haven't talked to a single CPC supporter that can tell me one policy they are on board with from the CPC. Not a single one. Just "Trudeau", "lost liberal decade", "WEF". It's absolutely unreal. There needs to be a questionnaire to vote, people watch some tiktoks and get outraged about "raising capital gains tax" when they couldn't rub 2 nickels together.

Ok, I'll be the first then:

Here are my main 'likes' from the CPC campaign promises:

- Tougher on crime; one my family members is RCMP and notes how many times he has to arrest the same person. I micro example of a much bigger problem viewed from a macro scale.

- Defund the CBC (not delete it, as some have coined incorrectly). The CBC can fund themselves just like every other media outlet. Re-allocate those funds to a different program (like:...)

- Stricter drug policies, rather than provide 'safe drugs' to those who are addicted, focus more on rehabilitation, bring the number of deaths from overdose down.

- Eliminate the Carbon Tax, both consumer and industrial which consumers pay for anyway in the cost of goods. This was somewhat copycatted from Pierre of course, but there's more to it than what has been cancelled/paused. Carbon levies are not off-setting climate change effects though I do respect that was the original goal.

- Oh and of course, not supporting LPC as I can't give a vote of confidence for past performance; for the past 2 terms in particular. I hope no one forgets why we are voting in 2025, it's because of that useless 2021 election in the midst of a pandemic to try and seize a mandate but only lose a few seats in the process.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's not that simplistic. There were organizations (including mine) who mandated people get two vaccination shots to remain employed. Not being able to travel is one thing, but not being employed is a different situation.

This was the policy announcement:

Do you work in federally or provincially regulated workplace?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

This isn't entirely new though. There's been debate for years whether health case workers should be required to take the flu vaccine for example. My daughter required a rabies vaccination and an up to date tetanus shot as a condition of her employment.

It had been litigated long before covid too. Just no one seems to care until they’re affected.

The courts are always going to use the precautionary principle. If the medical science shows the vaccines to be effective they will allow a mandate, if they don’t the courts will rule against an employer for imposing that policy.

That’s why the mandates went away when the vaccines were shown to be ineffective against the later variants.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Do you work in federally or provincially regulated workplace?

Yes, an Alberta Public Agency. Operates separate from the government but linked to a particular ministry.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Ok, I'll be the first then:

Here are my main 'likes' from the CPC campaign promises:

Have you put much thought into these? Because it honestly does not seem like it, but rather you’ve just bought whatever was being sold.

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Tougher on crime; one my family members is RCMP and notes how many times he has to arrest the same person. I micro example of a much bigger problem viewed from a macro scale.

Their version of tough on crime is not only unconstitutional, but it would overburden the justice system far worse than it already is now. Tough on crime is fun to say but taking away due process and or forcing more criminals back on the street because due process can’t be completed is your idea of it?

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Defund the CBC (not delete it, as some have coined incorrectly). The CBC can fund themselves just like every other media outlet. Re-allocate those funds to a different program (like:...)

Because you’d rather they be owned by American Republicans with a mandate to promote the right wing, like other prominent media outlets?

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Stricter drug policies, rather than provide 'safe drugs' to those who are addicted, focus more on rehabilitation, bring the number of deaths from overdose down.

Like what? Because safe supply is part of the equation. So what’s the plan?

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Eliminate the Carbon Tax, both consumer and industrial which consumers pay for anyway in the cost of goods. This was somewhat copycatted from Pierre of course, but there's more to it than what has been cancelled/paused. Carbon levies are not off-setting climate change effects though I do respect that was the original goal.

Carbon levies are having a positive impact on emissions, this is proven, and are necessary if we don’t want to be entirely reliant on the US. Did you have a problem when the Alberta conservative government put them in? Do you have a problem with the fact that conservative provincial governments have no plan to end them even if the Federal government no longer mandates them?

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Oh and of course, not supporting LPC as I can't give a vote of confidence for past performance; for the past 2 terms in particular. I hope no one forgets why we are voting in 2025, it's because of that useless 2021 election in the midst of a pandemic to try and seize a mandate but only lose a few seats in the process.

Yes, that’s how elections work, every four years at least. Voting for the past keeps you looking backwards. The Conservatives are promising a worse future for everyone, and that deserves a vote of confidence?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Ok, I'll be the first then:

Here are my main 'likes' from the CPC campaign promises:

- Tougher on crime; one my family members is RCMP and notes how many times he has to arrest the same person. I micro example of a much bigger problem viewed from a macro scale.

- Defund the CBC (not delete it, as some have coined incorrectly). The CBC can fund themselves just like every other media outlet. Re-allocate those funds to a different program (like:...)

- Stricter drug policies, rather than provide 'safe drugs' to those who are addicted, focus more on rehabilitation, bring the number of deaths from overdose down.

- Eliminate the Carbon Tax, both consumer and industrial which consumers pay for anyway in the cost of goods. This was somewhat copycatted from Pierre of course, but there's more to it than what has been cancelled/paused. Carbon levies are not off-setting climate change effects though I do respect that was the original goal.

- Oh and of course, not supporting LPC as I can't give a vote of confidence for past performance; for the past 2 terms in particular. I hope no one forgets why we are voting in 2025, it's because of that useless 2021 election in the midst of a pandemic to try and seize a mandate but only lose a few seats in the process.

Except that isn't their goal. The purpose of the carbon tax is really 2 goals. To try to approximate the external costs which are not included in the base cost of goods. Climate change being the largest externality that isn't provided for. Using these goods have a real cost in terms of the cost of climate change and firms are not including that cost.

Secondly, they are meant to make these products more expensive. They need to decrease the demand on carbon intensive products to incentivize choice in the market for other products, increasing their demand.

This is why carbon pricing is considered a right wing policy. It attempts to influence the market so that market forces push for less carbon intensive (and eventually cheaper) alternatives. The slow increase in cost gives companies time to pivot, or to R&D alternatives.

What people fail to realize is the exponential growth of these changes, and using a linear timescale complain that the renewable increase is too slow, but over the past 20 years, capacity has been doubling about every 4 years (I need a source but I remember seeing 4 years somewhere - correct me if wrong).

Eliminating carbon taxation altogether will disincentivize the change and push usage higher, in turn pushing climate change worse. But also, the EU in particular requires some sort of carbon offset for trade negotiations.

Regardless of our 1.5% of total pollution which loves to get bandied around, as a country we are a top 10 polluter, and a top 10 economy. We have to be a leaders in the fight against climate change. What we do, does matter on the global scale, we can be a leader and innovator instead of a laggard.

That was the key point of climate that Carney brings. Climate change is already happening and it getting worse is inevitable - ask any insurance agency what their risk profile is on climate change events. We can either be a leader and be first in the industry and the economic gains that go with that, or we suck on the O&G tit until it runs dry and are a pace behind most of the rest of the world.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Well are you are freedumb loving mothertrucker?

and why can't it be both? If Turdeau was still in charge you would have been right though.

The U of C should take away the deplorables degree. What a god damn embarrassment to us. For a EFFING CHANGE! hahahahaha. I"m going to miss these 3 word slogans for the morons.

Your complaint was he didn’t tell you anything good about PP. This is ironic because you have never said anything you like about Carney. You fall into the same not XXXX trap as your trucker friends.

The only debate I have is whether you intentionally ape right wing talking points and flip them and do this ironically or if you are just what ever the equivalent of a Maga on the left is.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Ok, I'll be the first then:

Here are my main 'likes' from the CPC campaign promises:

1. Tougher on crime; one my family members is RCMP and notes how many times he has to arrest the same person. I micro example of a much bigger problem viewed from a macro scale.

2. Defund the CBC (not delete it, as some have coined incorrectly). The CBC can fund themselves just like every other media outlet. Re-allocate those funds to a different program (like:...)

3. Stricter drug policies, rather than provide 'safe drugs' to those who are addicted, focus more on rehabilitation, bring the number of deaths from overdose down.

4. Eliminate the Carbon Tax, both consumer and industrial which consumers pay for anyway in the cost of goods. This was somewhat copycatted from Pierre of course, but there's more to it than what has been cancelled/paused. Carbon levies are not off-setting climate change effects though I do respect that was the original goal.

1. What does this even mean? Tougher how? Why not provide resources to properly rehabilitate these people. Better yet, how about addressing some of the root causes that would help 'at risk' communities be less vulnerable to these life choices.

2. Why should they be defunded? I get news from a limited few sources (CBC, Reuters, APN) and 'generally' I don't feel like I'm having lies and misinformation crammed down my throat. Yes, there are biases. However, these sources don't post sensational, conspiratorial misinformation like the Fox News and CNNs of the world (to say nothing of the garbage like Rebel News, Truth North, etc.) People have completely forgotten what the fundamental purpose of journalism is or what journalistic integrity is. Asshats like Trump parrot 'fake news' when they are called out on their bull#### lies. So, everyone else follows suit and does the same thing when they don't like what they hear. The result is that we're all lead to believe that it's all lies. Now, could they be streamlined? Maybe. I don't scrutinize their spending but I doubt it's as bloated as any right-wing source claims it to be.

3. Addictions are far, far more complex than you're making them out to be. You have to understand that there are people that come from situations that you can't even begin to imagine. You can't just force someone into rehab then expect them to 'come out clean' and ready to join the workforce. That might work for a very specific profile of addicts but it is not the profile that most addicts fit. You want to reduce overdoes deaths but at the same time get ready of a safe drugs supply? Safe sites for testing and use? You might not like it but that saves lives. It is an incredibly complex issue and sloganeering isn't going to 'fix' it.

4. I'm really torn on corporate carbon tax. My understanding is that most economists agree that they're an excellent tool to drive change. The problem is that policies lack teeth. You can foist carbon taxes onto corporations all you want but you can't stop them from just passing the cost on to consumers. That's my problem with it. Our governments and industries aren't doing anything to clean up their acts. I've admittedly not looked too closely at either the CPC or LPC environmental policies other than a blurb about PPs wanting to kibosh any and every green incentive programs as part of his costed platform. The time for kicking that can down the wrong is long, long gone. Sadly, points 1, 2, and 3 won't mean #### all if point 4 is simply ignored. I'm also not old enough that I will age out of the effects of all of this inaction.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

Ok, I'll be the first then:

Here are my main 'likes' from the CPC campaign promises:

- Tougher on crime; one my family members is RCMP and notes how many times he has to arrest the same person. I micro example of a much bigger problem viewed from a macro scale.

- Defund the CBC (not delete it, as some have coined incorrectly). The CBC can fund themselves just like every other media outlet. Re-allocate those funds to a different program (like:...)

- Stricter drug policies, rather than provide 'safe drugs' to those who are addicted, focus more on rehabilitation, bring the number of deaths from overdose down.

- Eliminate the Carbon Tax, both consumer and industrial which consumers pay for anyway in the cost of goods. This was somewhat copycatted from Pierre of course, but there's more to it than what has been cancelled/paused. Carbon levies are not off-setting climate change effects though I do respect that was the original goal.

- Oh and of course, not supporting LPC as I can't give a vote of confidence for past performance; for the past 2 terms in particular. I hope no one forgets why we are voting in 2025, it's because of that useless 2021 election in the midst of a pandemic to try and seize a mandate but only lose a few seats in the process.

How is this not right out of Trumps playbook lol.

He makes it sound like we are the US with the crime, or drugs. Defund the CBC he might as well talk about suing them as well.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

But Carney's CV is great for an executive job, not necessarily running a country.

For a party and supporter group on the political right that desires to run the government more like a business... this is quite the comment.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Have you put much thought into these? Because it honestly does not seem like it, but rather you’ve just bought whatever was being sold.

Isn't that essentially the life of being a conservative at this point? This is pretty much the ethos of modern conservatism:

- No real, deep understanding of public policy, and/or Canadian civics.
- Stick to your own echo-chambers.
- Find outgroups to blame your personal failures and fears on.
- Personal anecdotes are more reliable than evidence, but only the personal anecdotes that support your already held views.
- Academics and experts are all bought and paid for, therefore unreliable.
- Regurgitate the slogans and talking points that dear leader and their media cronies put out.
- Under no circumstances do any self-reflection regarding why you keep voting for a party and movement that has consistently failed at the one thing you and they claim they're good at (economy/spending).
- No self-reflection on why you consistently find yourselves duped into parroting very obvious conspiracy theories.
- When asked to defend conservative policies, resort to deflections and whataboutisms.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by indes

Anecdotal but I haven't talked to a single CPC supporter that can tell me one policy they are on board with from the CPC. Not a single one. Just "Trudeau", "lost liberal decade", "WEF". It's absolutely unreal. There needs to be a questionnaire to vote, people watch some tiktoks and get outraged about "raising capital gains tax" when they couldn't rub 2 nickels together.

I know I’m like a broken record on this, but the motivating impulse of politics today is negative polarization. People don’t vote for X because they love X - they vote for X because they hate and fear Y.

So it’s not surprising a lot people voting for the CPC don’t know or care much about the CPC’s policies. And that cuts both ways. The Canadian electorate flocked to Carney not because he has tremendous charisma or an inspiring platform - they flocked to him because they hate and fear Trump (and by extension the CPC), and coalesced around one party to stop them.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It had been litigated long before covid too. Just no one seems to care until they’re affected.

The courts are always going to use the precautionary principle. If the medical science shows the vaccines to be effective they will allow a mandate, if they don’t the courts will rule against an employer for imposing that policy.

That’s why the mandates went away when the vaccines were shown to be ineffective against the later variants.

To be accurate here, they were shown to be less effective at blocking infection(not ineffective) but still offered protection against the severity of the disease. People vaccinated with boosters after that typically experienced less severe symptoms, including in vulnerable groups, and that's still true today.

[Scrambler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Have you put much thought into these? Because it honestly does not seem like it, but rather you’ve just bought whatever was being sold.



Their version of tough on crime is not only unconstitutional, but it would overburden the justice system far worse than it already is now. Tough on crime is fun to say but taking away due process and or forcing more criminals back on the street because due process can’t be completed is your idea of it?



Because you’d rather they be owned by American Republicans with a mandate to promote the right wing, like other prominent media outlets?



Like what? Because safe supply is part of the equation. So what’s the plan?



Carbon levies are having a positive impact on emissions, this is proven, and are necessary if we don’t want to be entirely reliant on the US. Did you have a problem when the Alberta conservative government put them in? Do you have a problem with the fact that conservative provincial governments have no plan to end them even if the Federal government no longer mandates them?



Yes, that’s how elections work, every four years at least. Voting for the past keeps you looking backwards. The Conservatives are promising a worse future for everyone, and that deserves a vote of confidence?

The note was that not onbe CPC voter could say anything about what the benefits of the CPC forming government. I could keep replying and also ask the same thing (LPC campaign promises and the logic of them working and or being logical), but I don't see the point. It's the responsibility of the government to make things work, that's their burden not ours. Besides, it's election day, we're not persuading anyone at this point. What happens happens and we move on. I've already taken too much time away from the job I hate to argue points here, lol.

Don't worry, your Liberals will win and you can enjoy the path forward. As I eluded to in an earlier reply I may get on board at some point too. If things work and we get Trump in check, the CAD$ nudge back up I'll be as happy as the next guy. I'm not a staunch supporter of anything, I'm just an eternal pessimist.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Honest questions though. If Carney lost his resume would easily get him a respectable job.

What will baby Trump do? Lots of our call centers are gone

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I haven't the clips as I am not on Twitter and fully agree that this event should not be getting political. Personally I think people and tech companies need to be held to account for such filth online as this culture of not trying to render aid but instead looking for views is beyond sick.

The reality of the specific situation will also be really eye opening going forward no matter who wins. This is just another much larger and more deranged example of the problem we have in this country and how we deal with people with these problems on a go forward basis. When the details of this person are probably released I am sure nobody is going to take any accountability. Medical people who are powerless and may just tick a box to be done with it? Police? Judges? Prosecutors ? Politicians? Charity and support groups? Nobody will but someone is responsible for allow this and a many others to happen.

Literally nobody is going to argue that this person does not belong in prison or in a mental health facility going forward for a very very long time, after this fact. Before this occurred people would probably be defending this person's right to not be forced into anything but now that this event occurred and with a mountain of destruction that he probably did leading up to this, people always ask "Why was this person allowed to walk the streets?"

The difference is a lot of previous events could have been prevented and this particular event may have as well

You leave out a pretty important group. All of us. As taxpayers we squeal when the system doesn't work and bad things happen. Then a proposed tax hike to fund the systems so they will work is greeted as the apocalypse. WE can't have it both ways.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

This might be hard to take for some people, but the Conservatives and Liberals are at about 50% aligned or mostly aligned on their policies. The difference in 'right' and 'left' in this country isn't as vast as some of you want to believe. I mean, part of why Carney's popularity soared was because he immediately did the things Pollievre was hammering Trudeau for. It was brilliant on his part. And it'll likely work. West will be blue. East will be red. Life will go on. So much stress and negativity over politics these days. It's mind bottling.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Scrambler

- Oh and of course, not supporting LPC as I can't give a vote of confidence for past performance; for the past 2 terms in particular. I hope no one forgets why we are voting in 2025, it's because of that useless 2021 election in the midst of a pandemic to try and seize a mandate but only lose a few seats in the process.

It is kinda crazy how all the non-stop corruption and scandals are just forgotten and swept under the rug now. Just off the top of my head, interfering in criminal charges to save SNC for bribes, pressuring the Attorney General, all the ethics violations, refusing to hand over documents to the Speaker and RCMP about foreign interference, WE Charity scandal, ArriveCan fraud, derailing parliamentary committee meeting on violence against women to fear monger on abortion, the Randy not that Randy it's the other Randy falsifying Indigenous heritage for money, etc.

Nevermind the actual policies of economic suicide, a self made housing crisis, self described uncontrolled immigration crisis, Provinces begging for the bail reform to fix the problems that the federal government caused, falling productivity and lack of investment, etc.

But Ooga Booga Trump and we're happy to just forget and potentially bend over to do it all again. Little wonder it'll keep happening I guess.