Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Torture

Why is that concerning? The project had been approved and green lit all the way through up until the time when the UCP yanked funding. Even the week before he yanked funding Dreeshan said they could bank on it and the province was 100% committed. They were doing the work that had been agreed upon and they needed to do that work beforehand to relocate utilities downtown and acquire land before 'building track'. Everyone was aware this work was being done to prepare.

It's concerning because we've spent so much painting ourselves into a corner with nothing to show for it. And this result is unsurprising.

We chose the most complicated and most expensive critical path possible. There was some logic to it (though I disagreed with prioritization from the start). Then existential issues became apparent 5 years ago. But we commissioned our own decision-based evidence-making report (steer report 2020 - at least it was released to the public!) and continued on with tunnel-vision.

The UCP showed us who they were and we didn't believe them. They/we elected someone even more despicable and we ignored the risk. We continued on a single series circuit plan (think old style xmas lights where 1 bulb kills everything), and the completely shocking predictable result is that the entire project is ####ed.


I agree with the rest of your post, but I think it's still possible to salvage something here with the federal money. And we can spray paint black X over the AB Gov logo on all the Green Line signs!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Torture

Look at all those incidents along the centre street north corridor that is now left in limbo for 'many many years' according to Dreeshan himself. Amazing. Couldn't #### it up more if you tried UCP. Thanks a bunch.

Spoiler!

The city's plan had us no closer to meaningfully fixing those issues.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The city's plan had us no closer to meaningfully fixing those issues.

I don't follow - how would a train one day going up centre not having a meaningful impact on overloaded buses along the centre street corridor?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Torture

I don't follow - how would a train one day going up centre not having a meaningful impact on overloaded buses along the centre street corridor?

The City plan didn't offer any meaningful detail on how/when it would ever go north. Since 2017 when the NC segment was effectively cut, the Green Line has not done any work for that segment or acquired any properties.

Had the City plan been built, it would have kept on going further SE to reach the higher potential ridership areas with lower incremental construction costs.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1818467128166826184

[Torture]

I mean, yeah sure, I wasn't thrilled that it was going to Shepard first either but I get there's reasons for it.

But the bar we're measuring is 'no closer to meaningfully fixing any of those issues' [congestion on centre north] and the two options on the table are:

1) UCP map that stops at 7 ave, doesn't go to eau claire or even contemplate crossing the river for 'many many years from now'
vs 2) the original plan to build Shepard to Eau Claire so that you have the capacity to build either north or south in the future.

I think that's still a meaningful step towards easing the congestion on centre north because plan 2 (the original plan that's now dead, sigh) laid the foundation.
Was it as big or fast as I'd like to see it? No. But it's a hell of a lot better than the UCP saying '#### you northies we're going to Seton!' so I'd argue there's a meaningful difference between the two.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The City plan didn't offer any meaningful detail on how/when it would ever go north. Since 2017 when the NC segment was effectively cut, the Green Line has not done any work for that segment or acquired any properties.

Had the City plan been built, it would have kept on going further SE to reach the higher potential ridership areas with lower incremental construction costs.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1818467128166826184

Aw come on! They've been tearing Ogden apart for years now!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Torture

I mean, yeah sure, I wasn't thrilled that it was going to Shepard first either but I get there's reasons for it.

But the bar we're measuring is 'no closer to meaningfully fixing any of those issues' [congestion on centre north] and the two options on the table are:

1) UCP map that stops at 7 ave, doesn't go to eau claire or even contemplate crossing the river for 'many many years from now'
vs 2) the original plan to build Shepard to Eau Claire so that you have the capacity to build either north or south in the future.

I think that's still a meaningful step towards easing the congestion on centre north because plan 2 (the original plan that's now dead, sigh) laid the foundation.
Was it as big or fast as I'd like to see it? No. But it's a hell of a lot better than the UCP saying '#### you northies we're going to Seton!' so I'd argue there's a meaningful difference between the two.

Both plans are bad. If we want a train to the north, we should build a train to the north. The MSF excuse was weak then, and its laughable now. They thought they had better land use opportunities for the best site in the north. That failed and they're on to plan B (but there's still nothing really stopping us from using that site).


But if I had to compare, the city's plan would need 2-3 extension phases to the SE. The elevated plan would be 1-2. These extensions are likely to win each time over going north, which is a much bigger job.

Continuing the elevated track due north and then over the river is a comparatively simple continuation of one big bridge project. Whereas going from underground to over the Bow River is basically starting a whole new bridge project. But neither is cheap or easy. But a new bridge isn't necessarily necessary to run a train from the North to DT.

[GirlySports]

if a line has plans to extend, it won't. When was the last time a line extended? Tuscany 10 years ago?

The blue line should have 4 stations past Saddletowne by now.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The blue line should have 4 stations past Saddletowne by now.

Building far flung extensions shows great if you're giving built station counts to win an election, but they do almost nothing to solve the biggest of our transportation infrastructure problems which are in the heart of the city.


This whole thing will make perfect attack ad fodder. Show a bunch of freezing office workers walking across wind-swept winter streets to avoid boarded up former +15s, walking past people shooting up in the shadows of the new elevated train line, which is covered in graffiti.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Building far flung extensions shows great if you're giving built station counts to win an election, but they do almost nothing to solve the biggest of our transportation infrastructure problems which are in the heart of the city.


This whole thing will make perfect attack ad fodder. Show a bunch of freezing office workers walking across wind-swept winter streets to avoid boarded up former +15s, walking past people shooting up in the shadows of the new elevated train line, which is covered in graffiti.

right, i meant if the plan is to build the green line in 2-3 extension phases, it won't happen

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

right, i meant if the plan is to build the green line in 2-3 extension phases, it won't happen

Why?

They've already extended the system 12 times.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Why?

They've already extended the system 12 times.

Not in 10 years, different times.

[Locke]

I'm telling you...we can fix this entire problem with Zeppelins and rope.

Who doesnt want to see a Bank Manager and a Meth Junkie rappel into downtown from a majestic airship? No roads or rails required.

Efficient and inexpensive and you dont have to worry about parking, you just tie them up somewhere. Just imagine the amount of traffic you could take off the roads and put them in the air!

Problem solved.

[Joborule]

The AECOM report for those interested. Features renders of the explored alignments (all elevated), as well a conceptual Grand Central Station.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/1c6c...2024-12-18.pdf

[Jimmy Stang]

So CBC is reporting tonight that the province says that the city is still responsible for all cost overruns and legal risk. I think that’s it then - I can’t see the city proceeding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-cgy-1.7414335

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Joborule

The AECOM report for those interested. Features renders of the explored alignments (all elevated), as well a conceptual Grand Central Station.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/1c6c...2024-12-18.pdf

I'd rather just retweet speculation that aligns with my political views.

Actually I was just about to post the same link.

Edit: No shortage of typos in that report. They misname streets and avenues on ~20 diagrams between page 95-115 or so.

[Huntingwhale]

I guarantee the green line will never get built.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I guarantee the green line will never get built.

What is with this place and construction projects dying at the 11th hour?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

if a line has plans to extend, it won't. When was the last time a line extended? Tuscany 10 years ago?

The blue line should have 4 stations past Saddletowne by now.

Stonegate is nowhere where near needed yet.

[Mazrim]

I thought the report was labeled confidential by the provincial government to avoid "influencing construction costs"?