Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[woob]

It's amazing how much money has been spent on this already and we are still no closer to a Green Line.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It is concerning that there is this much sunk cost apparently only relevant to the tunnel with no real progress. Have we already bought a TBM?

Why is that concerning? The project had been approved and green lit all the way through up until the time when the UCP yanked funding. Even the week before he yanked funding Dreeshan said they could bank on it and the province was 100% committed. They were doing the work that had been agreed upon and they needed to do that work beforehand to relocate utilities downtown and acquire land before 'building track'. Everyone was aware this work was being done to prepare.

I hate to say this, but IMO unless the City can get guarantees from the UCP that they're going to share the risk they have to walk away and hope future Governments can bring it all together again. This plan is 5% designed vs 60%+ for the City's tunneling plan so the ~6-7B elevated cost is probably +/- 50%.

Yes you lose the 1.5B funding from the Feds, but the City is on the hook for any funding above the provincial/federal commitment and you can't commit to a 'plan' scribbled with a crayon and no cost certainties. This boondoggle looks like it's only going to get more expensive and the City could easily be in the hole for as much or greater than that 1.5B commitment. The risk is simply too great and the City doesn't have the financial capacity to carry it alone.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Honestly, the best thing for The City to do right now may be to just walk away from the project entirely and wait for a new government. This is ridiculous.

This is where I'm at now too. The proper and most strategic long-term option here is tunneling downtown; the cheapest time to do it was yesterday, the second cheapest will be today. The UCP's rushed 'report' is basically just a document intentionally designed to be combative to the City, virtue signal to their own red meat base, and try to align with a new incoming mayor that will just be a conservative muppet IMO. It may cost more to wait longer, but maybe we wait until a provincial government who wants to work with the city is in charge.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Torture

Yes you lose the 1.5B funding from the Feds, but the City is on the hook for any funding above the provincial/federal commitment and you can't commit to a 'plan' scribbled with a crayon and no cost certainties.

Totally agree with your post. That said, I've always never really taken federal funding timeline requirements like this seriously though. If Calgary needs that funding for a project of this magnitude, for a city of this importance, and it has solid data and local (and hopefully provincial) support, federal funding will be found one way or another.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by woob

It's amazing how much money has been spent on this already and we are still no closer to a Green Line.

Just one more feasibility study. We promise!!

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Honestly, the best thing for The City to do right now may be to just walk away from the project entirely and wait for a new government. This is ridiculous.

No doubt that is what the UCP are hoping for as well.
They'll get to blame who ever is mayor for being too liberal, and trudeau for some reason while claiming culture wars are ruining the province.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Muta

This is where I'm at now too. The proper and most strategic long-term option here is tunneling downtown; the cheapest time to do it was yesterday, the second cheapest will be today. The UCP's rushed 'report' is basically just a document intentionally designed to be combative to the City, virtue signal to their own red meat base, and try to align with a new incoming mayor that will just be a conservative muppet IMO. It may cost more to wait longer, but maybe we wait until a provincial government who wants to work with the city is in charge.

Yep. The City needs to take a hard line and say 'Tunnel or Bust'. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Feds swoop in at some point to save this and offset the Provinces' contribution (wouldn't Marlaina love that).

[woob]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Just one more feasibility study. We promise!!

I want to know how I can get in on that sweet sweet feasibility study money!

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

No doubt that is what the UCP are hoping for as well.
They'll get to blame who ever is mayor for being too liberal, and trudeau for some reason while claiming culture wars are ruining the province.

Trains (that dont go to Banff for our donor) are woke!

[GirlySports]

A bigger problem. Too many full busses leave people behind. Shouldn't all the people that pay for transit be enough money to run more busses?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...hind-1.7408981

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

A bigger problem. Too many full busses leave people behind. Shouldn't all the people that pay for transit be enough money to run more busses?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...hind-1.7408981

Not really. Buying a bus and hiring a driver incur costs beyond just operating them specifically in rush hour. Transit doesn't make money here.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

No doubt that is what the UCP are hoping for as well.
They'll get to blame who ever is mayor for being too liberal, and trudeau for some reason while claiming culture wars are ruining the province.

Don't forget Nenshi. Being the biggest threat to Smith and the UCP, this will be "his" boondoggle.

They are no doubt hoping for a Pierre, Danielle, and (insert UCP-aligned mayor) trifecta of "common sense" that will get this done at double the cost for a less functional line. And then back pats and victory laps.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Yep. The City needs to take a hard line and say 'Tunnel or Bust'. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Feds swoop in at some point to save this and offset the Provinces' contribution (wouldn't Marlaina love that).

But remember that the UCP is passing (has passed?) laws that ensure that federal funding has to be approved by the province.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by woob

I want to know how I can get in on that sweet sweet feasibility study money!

Sell everything you own and donate the returns to a UCP campaign.

It's like those chain letters where if you send a dollar to the next person on the list you'll get ten in return.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

But remember that the UCP is passing (has passed?) laws that ensure that federal funding has to be approved by the province.

Doh!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Don't forget Nenshi. Being the biggest threat to Smith and the UCP, this will be "his" boondoggle.

Which will make it hilarious if he beats them and gets to save the project and claim responsibility for both the municipal and provincial funding.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

A bigger problem. Too many full busses leave people behind. Shouldn't all the people that pay for transit be enough money to run more busses?

Overcrowded/overloaded buses were a major reason for the Green Line to skip directly to LRT; but then the planners decided not to build the section that has the most incidents.

[SebC]

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Muta

Totally agree with your post. That said, I've always never really taken federal funding timeline requirements like this seriously though. If Calgary needs that funding for a project of this magnitude, for a city of this importance, and it has solid data and local (and hopefully provincial) support, federal funding will be found one way or another.

Totally agree. When the deadline passes and the money is gone, that's just this commitment, doesn't mean any future opportunity of getting a billion bucks from the Feds is gone.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Overcrowded/overloaded buses were a major reason for the Green Line to skip directly to LRT; but then the planners decided not to build the section that has the most incidents.

Look at all those incidents along the centre street north corridor that is now left in limbo for 'many many years' according to Dreeshan himself. Amazing. Couldn't #### it up more if you tried UCP. Thanks a bunch.

Spoiler!