Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

I was referring to incidents like the initial "bombing" of the Al Shifa hospital. It was clearly a misfired Palestinian rocket that landed in the parking lot. Yet, so many on here took Hamas at their word that Israel had bombed the hospital and killed hundreds. Then these incidents are used to characterize the whole campaign, which is not correct.

It wasn’t Al Shifa hospital.

But I’m not sure of your point regardless. War is a collection of incidents. Of course the most noteworthy are going to tell the story of this one. That’s the same with any war in the history of the world. And it is very much correct. Name a war that is not characterized by the collection of noteworthy moments in it. Hell, name one side in a war whose role in the war isn’t summed up with a collection of noteworthy moments.

If the issue is people taking one side at their word, then a far greater number of people than what you have in your heard are guilty of that. If that issue is misinformation, then hell, Al-Ahli is one of a hundred examples. We have people still talking about the UNRWA like it’s everything Israel said it was… but it’s been just as debunked as the Al-Ahli rocket. There’s issues of murky truth where people pick one side even though it’s pretty hard to know best. And then there’s issues where the truth seems to be irrelevant, where people pick an angle that aligns with their own narrative with nothing to back it up. Hell, some people were suggesting Al Shifa was still operational and that the World Kitchen vehicles were taken over by terrorists… even though all the evidence debunked those things from the start… (know anybody like that?)

Instead of pretending to be baffled because everyone is just criticising the Israeli government based on Hamas propaganda, why don’t you actually lay out the “clear and valid” criticisms available to everyone?

What are we allowed to criticize?

I actually want to know, because you’ve spent the majority of your time rejecting every single criticism or just saying “yeah but Palestinians…” so maybe it’d be easier if you laid out what is valid.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's a video of the errant PIJ rocket landing on the hospital. The damage clearly showed that it was the parking lot that was hit and was totally congruent with an errant Gazan rocket.

There is video of something landing on the hospital. Not a PIJ rocket unless you have some secret sources. Israel threatened to bomb the hospital...told the hospital to evacuate hours before the explosion and then a bomb hit the hospital. Coincidence?

[Language]

As a Jew and a supporter of Israel, I’ve always felt that we sometimes throw the word “anti-semitism” around too easily. I agree that a criticism of Israel does not equate to anti-semitism and it’s a cop out to always use that as a pillar when justifying Israel’s actions.

However, there is some absolutely vile anti-semitism happening all over the place. It’s despicable that this has been allowed to continue for so long unabated. Just a few examples that popped up on my feed today.

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...644149507?s=46

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...939710514?s=46

https://x.com/scootercasterny/status...089248956?s=46

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1800...276402482?s=46

Like wtf is going on. Jews being blamed for the actions of the Israeli government is blatant anti-semitism in my opinion. This is akin to demonstrating in front of a Halal butcher shop to “release the hostages”. Just disgusting stuff and it doesn’t seem like authorities have the stomach or the power do anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fuzz]

In fairness, the second video does say "before the cops surrounded us", so not completely unabated!

Too much hate everywhere. It's unfortunate the actions if the Israeli government lead to individuals who have nothing to do with it being targeted. Lots of blame to go around for this. But is it really anti-semitism? Are they hated because they are Jewish, or hated because of what the Israeli government is doing to people, and are a convenient target?

Like, I despise the Israeli government and how they are handling this, and despise settlers for inflaming hostilities for decades. I am clearly not shy for calling them out. Does that make me an anti-semite? Because I feel the same about Putin and those supporting him and his actions, but their is no word for anti-Russian.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

As a Jew and a supporter of Israel, I’ve always felt that we sometimes throw the word “anti-semitism” around too easily. I agree that a criticism of Israel does not equate to anti-semitism and it’s a cop out to always use that as a pillar when justifying Israel’s actions.

However, there is some absolutely vile anti-semitism happening all over the place. It’s despicable that this has been allowed to continue for so long unabated. Just a few examples that popped up on my feed today.

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...644149507?s=46

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...939710514?s=46

https://x.com/scootercasterny/status...089248956?s=46

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1800...276402482?s=46

Like wtf is going on. Jews being blamed for the actions of the Israeli government is blatant anti-semitism in my opinion. This is akin to demonstrating in front of a Halal butcher shop to “release the hostages”. Just disgusting stuff and it doesn’t seem like authorities have the stomach or the power do anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s a lot worse. There is some disgusting stuff in those clips.

I don’t think it’s their responsibility necessarily, but pro-Palestinian protestors and activists need to do a better job of making anti-semites and actual terrorist sympathizers unwelcome. All these people do is cause harm to innocent people minding their business and give ammo to the equally hatefully contingents of the other side. Just dumb.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Language

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...644149507?s=46

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...939710514?s=46

https://x.com/scootercasterny/status...089248956?s=46

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1800...276402482?s=46

Like wtf is going on. Jews being blamed for the actions of the Israeli government is blatant anti-semitism in my opinion. This is akin to demonstrating in front of a Halal butcher shop to “release the hostages”. Just disgusting stuff and it doesn’t seem like authorities have the stomach or the power do anything.

This is exactly the problem I've been decrying for the last 8 months; namely that the conflation of Israel and Judaism gives actual Nazi #######s cover and emboldens them to publicly castigate Jews in a general sense.

Israel of course is more than happy to push this narrative because it causes a greater Us v Them rift and entrenches pro-Israeli positions.

Part of the JVP and other groups push is to clearly delineate Zionists and Jews, but of course you have dip####s in this thread even saying that Zionist is a Jewish Slur or some nonsense because of this propaganda campaign.

Note note:

Oli London is basically this grift-cycles' Milo Yiannapolis (remember him?), notable for getting 200,000 worth of facial surgery in order to look like a K-Pop star (he is white)

Visegrad24 has been flagged as a disinfo and astroturf account that rose to prominence during the early days of the Russia-Ukraine war.

Both accounts are more interested in stoking conflict and demonizing Muslims than supporting Jews.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Language

As a Jew and a supporter of Israel, I’ve always felt that we sometimes throw the word “anti-semitism” around too easily. I agree that a criticism of Israel does not equate to anti-semitism and it’s a cop out to always use that as a pillar when justifying Israel’s actions.

However, there is some absolutely vile anti-semitism happening all over the place. It’s despicable that this has been allowed to continue for so long unabated. Just a few examples that popped up on my feed today.

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...644149507?s=46

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...939710514?s=46

https://x.com/scootercasterny/status...089248956?s=46

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1800...276402482?s=46

Like wtf is going on. Jews being blamed for the actions of the Israeli government is blatant anti-semitism in my opinion. This is akin to demonstrating in front of a Halal butcher shop to “release the hostages”. Just disgusting stuff and it doesn’t seem like authorities have the stomach or the power do anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's disgusting.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

In fairness, the second video does say "before the cops surrounded us", so not completely unabated!

Too much hate everywhere. It's unfortunate the actions if the Israeli government lead to individuals who have nothing to do with it being targeted. Lots of blame to go around for this. But is it really anti-semitism? Are they hated because they are Jewish, or hated because of what the Israeli government is doing to people, and are a convenient target?

Like, I despise the Israeli government and how they are handling this, and despise settlers for inflaming hostilities for decades. I am clearly not shy for calling them out. Does that make me an anti-semite? Because I feel the same about Putin and those supporting him and his actions, but their is no word for anti-Russian.

I think that once a person is conflating Israel with all Jews, that is anti-semetic. Its prejudice towards Jews as a people.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

In fairness, the second video does say "before the cops surrounded us", so not completely unabated!

Too much hate everywhere. It's unfortunate the actions if the Israeli government lead to individuals who have nothing to do with it being targeted. Lots of blame to go around for this. But is it really anti-semitism? Are they hated because they are Jewish, or hated because of what the Israeli government is doing to people, and are a convenient target?

Like, I despise the Israeli government and how they are handling this, and despise settlers for inflaming hostilities for decades. I am clearly not shy for calling them out. Does that make me an anti-semite? Because I feel the same about Putin and those supporting him and his actions, but their is no word for anti-Russian.

People aren't racist because of the Israeli government. They're racist because they are POS.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by blankall

People aren't racist because of the Israeli government. They're racist because they are POS.

Agree. The Israeli government can be criticized for many things, but I don't think its fair to criticize it for emboldening or empowering anti-Semitic mouth-breathers. Seems like that's letting the mouth-breathers off too easy. It would be like responding to mosque vandalism by saying "well, its unfortunate that the actions of ISIS lead to people hating all Muslims" or something.

[Fuzz]

So is it fair to criticize those that support Israeli government actions, or is that antisemitic?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Language

As a Jew and a supporter of Israel, I’ve always felt that we sometimes throw the word “anti-semitism” around too easily. I agree that a criticism of Israel does not equate to anti-semitism and it’s a cop out to always use that as a pillar when justifying Israel’s actions.

However, there is some absolutely vile anti-semitism happening all over the place. It’s despicable that this has been allowed to continue for so long unabated. Just a few examples that popped up on my feed today.

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...644149507?s=46

https://x.com/olilondontv/status/180...939710514?s=46

https://x.com/scootercasterny/status...089248956?s=46

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1800...276402482?s=46

Like wtf is going on. Jews being blamed for the actions of the Israeli government is blatant anti-semitism in my opinion. This is akin to demonstrating in front of a Halal butcher shop to “release the hostages”. Just disgusting stuff and it doesn’t seem like authorities have the stomach or the power do anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you're trying to cultivate votes for the next election it is amazing what you'll tolerate.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So is it fair to criticize those that support Israeli government actions, or is that antisemitic?

Even within Israel people criticize those that support the current government.

My problem is that there is a huge difference between you criticizing the actions, because I know you're not delusional, and other posts in this thread who I won't name criticizing Israel.

Some people just literally want Israel to be wiped out, and they disguise their true feelings but being intentionally obtuse about the situation.

That is why I feel we have terrorist scum marching in our streets and nobody does anything about it.

At the very least the deportation office should be working 24/7 these days.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So is it fair to criticize those that support Israeli government actions, or is that antisemitic?

The problem is this statement:

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's unfortunate the actions if the Israeli government lead to individuals who have nothing to do with it being targeted. Lots of blame to go around for this.

There isn't "lots of blame" to go around. Jewish people who don't support the war being targeted because they are Jewish is not the fault of the Israeli government, or the fault of the Jewish people in question - it's the fault of the racists.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But is it really anti-semitism?

Now "racists" isn't really the word here, so we reach for "anti-semites".

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are they hated because they are Jewish, or hated because of what the Israeli government is doing to people, and are a convenient target?

In this case they are absolutely hated because they are Jewish. To say it's the fault of the Israeli government for innocent people of a certain ethnicity to be targeted is letting the racists off the hook.

When Black people are getting lynched do we stop to say "Is it really because they are Black, or because of what that bad gang of Black guys did to those other innocent people, and they are just convenient targets?"

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Azure

When you're trying to cultivate votes for the next election it is amazing what you'll tolerate.

I must be misunderstanding you. You aren't seriously saying this is Trudeau's fault? Right?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Azure

That is why I feel we have terrorist scum marching in our streets and nobody does anything about it.

At the very least the deportation office should be working 24/7 these days.

Sorry, who is getting deported and why?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So is it fair to criticize those that support Israeli government actions, or is that antisemitic?

I criticize the Israeli government all the time. In fact I think their current government and PM, Netanyahu, needs to go.

Criticism of "Zionist" and the Israeli government slips into anti-semitism frequently though, and it's often:

1. Simply subbing in the word Zionist or Israeli into old anti-semitic canard. For example, Zionists control the media and banks. They don't. There is plenty of anti-Israeli media.

2. Using the characteristics of Jewish people, generally, to criticize the existence of a Jewish state. Jewish people exist as an ethnicity. They have roots in what is now Israel. There's nothing anymore inherently evil about Jewish people wanting sovereignty than any other ethnicity wanting the same. They aren't just some group of random white religious fanatics.

3. Giving anti-semites more leeway than you'd give other groups of racists and excusing their actions.

4. Constantly referencing the holocaust and applying that analogy to the current middle east conflict. People wouldn't dream of doing the same thing to any other recently traumatized group. That goes back to point 3.

The rules are just different with Jewish people and the discussion of Israel. For example, you have the president of Harvard hesitating and qualifying on whether or not calls for genocide against Jewish people. She's a high ranking university delegate at an Ivy League school and the victims, she's not defending, are university aged teenagers.

All of this racism only strengthens Israel. As you state right wing elements of the Israeli government do inflate hostilities. Why are they doing that, because they know that doing so encourages more Jewish people to immigrate to Israel.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

The problem is this statement:

There isn't "lots of blame" to go around. Jewish people who don't support the war being targeted because they are Jewish is not the fault of the Israeli government, or the fault of the Jewish people in question - it's the fault of the racists.

Now "racists" isn't really the word here, so we reach for "anti-semites".

In this case they are absolutely hated because they are Jewish. To say it's the fault of the Israeli government for innocent people of a certain ethnicity to be targeted is letting the racists off the hook.

When Black people are getting lynched do we stop to say "Is it really because they are Black, or because of what that bad gang of Black guys did to those other innocent people, and they are just convenient targets?"

Agreed, thank you. Looking back at my post, I was really struggling with communicating what I was getting at.

It's a common theme in history where uninvolved indivduals get lumped in with actions of their government or other groups, like our own Japanese internment camps, or the backlash against Muslims after 9/11.

[Fuzz]

Sometimes I wish humanity could be flashed with those MIB devices, and everyone would just be seen as humans, not a member of a group to be superior or attacked.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by starseed

I don't think that is a fair characterization of university students. Fortunately, only a small minority of Canadians support the pro-palestinian encampments. Even amongst university age youth, those opposed to the encampments outweigh those who support.

Those illegally camping out on university property are just the misguided vocal minority on this issue.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...t-universities

That is true.

Unfortunately those post secondary institutions are not treating them like the misguided(dumb####) vocal minority, so the issue is now larger than it should be.

Not sure what is so hard about simply banning those students from post secondary. Give them 24 hours to clear out or they're expelled.

But hey, have to take the nice guy approach these. Working great so far.