Israel declares war on Hamas

[TheIronMaiden]

Speaking of "both sides many sides" the mods need to crack down on #### posting.
I get they want this to be unbiased, but it is only getting worse. I have no problem with things getting heated when things are getting hashed out, but the #### posts are where the line needs to be drawn.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Israel lying???? Shocking I tell you, shocking.

Maybe the posters who continue to spew lies here are learning it from Netanyahu and Israel.

Well it's no hospital bombing blamed on IDF that ended up being a hamas rocket but its something xD

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Speaking of "both sides many sides" the mods need to crack down on #### posting.
I get they want this to be unbiased, but it is only getting worse. I have no problem with things getting heated when things are getting hashed out, but the #### posts are where the line needs to be drawn.

And now for the daily "cry to the mods". Insult and attack people personally but then cry to the mods when someone replies.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Well it's no hospital bombing blamed on IDF that ended up being a hamas rocket but its something xD





And now for the daily "cry to the mods". Insult and attack people personally but then cry to the mods when someone replies.

Insults and personal attacks are fine, I prefer the full flavor internet. I am talking about #### posting.

####posting or trashposting is the act of using an online forum or social media page to post content that is of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality". ####posts are generally intentionally designed to derail discussions or cause the biggest reaction with the least effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/####posting

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did you read the piece I posted?
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israe...amas-ends-gaza


What do you think of the option this expert suggests that I quoted near the end of my post? Namely, not bombing the #### out of them and making more terrorists?

I did read it and I agree 100% that it is a terrible strategy, both from an operational success standpoint, and just from the amount of civilian casualties it creates.

I am all for more direct action raids like the one that rescued the hostages, but according to the Gaza Ministry of Health (I mean Minister of Bull####), over 200 people were killed, which is likely going to be the result of any direct action raid because when you literally have civilians holding hostages, what do you think will happen?

End of the day funding and support has to be cut off from Hamas. Their tunnel network has to be cut off. Egypt's playing two sides by building a big border wall and allowing Hamas to build tunnels underneath needs to be cut off. Qatar needs to stop supporting Hamas. Etc, etc, etc. All these things can be done without actually needing to bomb Gaza, and it is the leverage the US, Jordan and others have over Israel. Unfortunately it is quite obvious that most countries in that area don't really care of Gaza is bombed to the stone age, as it plays into their hands.

[Azure]

Three hostages rescued during a deadly Israeli military operation on the Nuseirat camp in central Gaza were held captive by a journalist, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) alleged Sunday, without providing evidence to support their claim.

In a statement, the IDF claimed freed hostages Almog Meir Jan, Andrey Kozlov and Shlomi Ziv were held by journalist Abdallah Aljamal and his family members at their home in the central Gaza camp.

The three men, who were kidnapped by Hamas militants from the Nova music festival on October 7, were rescued after being held captive for 246 days, in an IDF special operation on Saturday along with a fourth hostage, Noa Argamani.

There are varying reports on the number of Palestinians killed during the operation. The latest figures from Gazan authorities say 274 Palestinians were killed and 698 injured – which would mark one of the deadliest days in months for people living in Gaza.

The IDF has disputed those numbers, saying it estimated the number of casualties from the operation was “under 100.” CNN cannot independently verify either side’s figures.

Aljamal was killed in the IDF operation along with his wife and father, according to Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor chairman Ramy Abdu, citing initial testimony gathered by the group documenting the IDF’s alleged killings in the Nuseirat camp on Saturday.

Aljamal lived on the first floor of a multi-story building, according to Euro-Med. The IDF said the hostages were found on the third floor.

CNN is attempting to reach out to people familiar with Aljamal.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/10/middl...hnk/index.html

Of course the US likely can independently verify it, so will be interesting what they say.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Nobody’s stances have changed in this thread since it started. People are arguing with brick walls for no reason.

Besides the names that Pepsi listed, I'd add myself there as well. I was completely pro-Israel and supportive of them going into Gaza to clean out terrorists and extract hostages.

My personal view changed substantially during the course of this thread, albeit early. I think I'm not alone there.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Of course the US likely can independently verify it, so will be interesting what they say.

Yes. Like the way they independently verified the beheaded babies claim.

But you're off again. I'm sure you have more overwhelming evidence you just can't share.

[Bagor]

Israel. Champions of war crimes against children. "Unprecedented."

More grave violations against children were committed in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel than anywhere else in the world last year, according to a UN report due to be published this week.

The report on children and armed conflict, which has been seen by the Guardian, verified more cases of war crimes against children in the occupied territories and Israel than anywhere else, including the Democratic Republic of Congo, Myanmar, Somalia, Nigeria and Sudan.

“Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory presents an unprecedented scale and intensity of grave violations against children,” the report said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...st-bank-israel

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So what is the standard you hold Hamas to? Is parading multilated, naked bodies down Main Street the bar you gauge to?

Israeli government.
We want to be just like Hamas.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1800464033629483286

So. I'll ask you again to see if you're capable of recognizing or acknowledging depravity on both sides.

Originally Posted by Bagor

Do you agree they are similarly disgusting? Psychotic? Barbaric?

Well..... Do you?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Besides the names that Pepsi listed, I'd add myself there as well. I was completely pro-Israel and supportive of them going into Gaza to clean out terrorists and extract hostages.

My personal view changed substantially during the course of this thread, albeit early. I think I'm not alone there.

Ditto.

I'm all for Israel going in to get their hostages and do what's needed to ensure they're not susceptible to another attack like that; but there's no way you can say their response has been measured in any way.
The disregard for efforts to minimize civilian lives, especially children is appalling.
Their leader is a psychopath; so while a response was justified, the person in charge of it is completely the wrong person you'd want in that position.

With that said, some of the responses in here for Hamas supporters continue to astound.
Complete dismissal of the news of 4 hostages being rescued for example. I would have thought that would be one point everyone could feel was positive, but it was met with a lot of dismissal/ignoring at best, or whataboutism and focus on the captors deaths at worst.
Seems like really bad news to the people claiming they don't support Hamas.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Ditto.

I smell bs.

Let's test that out given you were the one deflecting the issue of dead children because the figures weren't accurate enough for you?

Or defending the destruction of Al Shifa hospital and the death of newborns, infants l by repeating Israeli propaganda and implying that Hamas had military bunkers under there?

Do you now find the number of dead children disgusting or is it still more of an issue to you that the numbers will never be accurately known? And do you feel any shame/stupidity in being a vessel for IDF lies?

Finally. Can you post any links to posts in this thread that are in direct support of Hamas? Maybe you can PM Nage for assistance.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Ditto.

I'm all for Israel going in to get their hostages and do what's needed to ensure they're not susceptible to another attack like that; but there's no way you can say their response has been measured in any way.
The disregard for efforts to minimize civilian lives, especially children is appalling.
Their leader is a psychopath; so while a response was justified, the person in charge of it is completely the wrong person you'd want in that position.

With that said, some of the responses in here for Hamas supporters continue to astound.
Complete dismissal of the news of 4 hostages being rescued for example. I would have thought that would be one point everyone could feel was positive, but it was met with a lot of dismissal/ignoring at best, or whataboutism and focus on the captors deaths at worst.
Seems like really bad news to the people claiming they don't support Hamas.

Same.

I'm not sure I can say my views have changed as I pretty much feel the same way I do from day 1. Of course we didn't know that Israel would be so vengeful with their attacks, which to me is literally not beneficial at all.

At the same time I didn't know we'd have a bunch of lunatics marching in our streets openly calling for killing of Jews and their support for Hamas.

What has really become evident to me this time around in comparison to say the 2006 war in Lebanon is that there are a lot less posters like Fuzz where I just disagree on some times, agree on others, and likely I could still go have a beer with and not really worry about anything, and more posters that love to act like 'omg I don't support Hamas', but they show complete disdain for the Jewish people, plight of the hostages and their families and a complete misunderstanding of the entire situation. Those posters are in essence a big part of the reason we have lunatic Hamas supporters living in Canada and openly showing their support for terrorism because they don't truly believe and understand the danger of what Hamas is and what they represent.

I'm actually at the point of where I look at some of these posters join date and I believe they literally search the internet and join in on these debates to throw #### around. Basically like the Hamas supporters marching in front of the White House screaming that Biden should be beheaded.

Same reason why the Russia thread gets a crazy amount of views.

But hey 'gays for Palestine.' Giver ####.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Azure

Same.

I'm not sure I can say my views have changed as I pretty much feel the same way I do from day 1. Of course we didn't know that Israel would be so vengeful with their attacks, which to me is literally not beneficial at all.

Speak for yourself. I called it in October.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sacrificing their own people (who they don't give a fk about) to fuel world disdain for the way Israel operates seems darkly strategic to me. Who didn't anticipate Israel going completely ballistic and becoming absolute monsters to Gaza within 10 seconds of hearing about Hamas' terrorist attack on Israel?

I think they provoked Israel into acting in a despicable manner and it will ultimately hurt Israel's standing in the world due to Israel playing into their hands.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

With that said, some of the responses in here for Hamas supporters continue to astound.
Complete dismissal of the news of 4 hostages being rescued for example. I would have thought that would be one point everyone could feel was positive, but it was met with a lot of dismissal/ignoring at best, or whataboutism and focus on the captors deaths at worst.
Seems like really bad news to the people claiming they don't support Hamas.

Out of curiosity, can you quote one post from a “Hamas supporter” that focused on the deaths of the hostages’ captors?

Unless you value Palestinian lives less than Israeli lives, I can see how the rescue of four is bittersweet in context of the death of another couple hundred civilians. Outright “positive” seems like a stretch.

It all comes back to the human cost of this. Which is what a lot of people take issue with.

[blankall]

Not even Netanyahu's own war cabinet minister agrees with the way he has run this war. This is the part I find baffling about this. As far as this thread goes, there are clear and valid criticisms to make, but the focus is always on these one off incidents.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Azure

and then use the media, the UN and other worthless organizations (90% of post secondary students) to rile up anger against Israel.

I don't think that is a fair characterization of university students. Fortunately, only a small minority of Canadians support the pro-palestinian encampments. Even amongst university age youth, those opposed to the encampments outweigh those who support.

Those illegally camping out on university property are just the misguided vocal minority on this issue.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...t-universities

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not even Netanyahu's own war cabinet minister agrees with the way he has run this war. This is the part I find baffling about this. As far as this thread goes, there are clear and valid criticisms to make, but the focus is always on these one off incidents.

One off incidents?

I think it's pretty evident that many here are pleading others to see the large numbers of human beings killed in this. Do people put up examples? Of course... examples of Palestinians being murdered, Israeli hostages killed and/or released. Those are valid 'one off incidents' to provide examples for larger events.

Otherwise we'd just have a counter of humans killed or kidnapped.

'Valid criticism'... what a wild way to presumably comment on a government that has gone on a human being killing spree.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

One off incidents?

I think it's pretty evident that many here are pleading others to see the large numbers of human beings killed in this. Do people put up examples? Of course... examples of Palestinians being murdered, Israeli hostages killed and/or released. Those are valid 'one off incidents' to provide examples for larger events.

Otherwise we'd just have a counter of humans killed or kidnapped.

'Valid criticism'... what a wild way to presumably comment on a government that has gone on a human being killing spree.

I was referring to incidents like the initial "bombing" of the Al Shifa hospital. It was clearly a misfired Palestinian rocket that landed in the parking lot. Yet, so many on here took Hamas at their word that Israel had bombed the hospital and killed hundreds. Then these incidents are used to characterize the whole campaign, which is not correct.

I've stated several times I disagree with Netanyahu's approach. I also think that Hamas creates Netanyahu, as much as the other way around. Hamas and other organizations make the Israeli public feel like they need a war orientated leader. They aren't voting in a dove when they see Hamas on the other end of the table.

[Zary's-Mustache]

It was not clearly a Palestinian rocket. You can say clearly all you want but forget who posted the wiki link on the incident as proof and on their own link it didn't even say it was clear who did it lol.

Very hard to believe that Israel was threatening for weeks to bomb that hospital and then that hospital got bombed..

And then israel bombed several more hospitals and even admitted it....shocking that people think Israel was behind that hospital bombing right?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

It was not clearly a Palestinian rocket. You can say clearly all you want but forget who posted the wiki link on the incident as proof and on their own link it didn't even say it was clear who did it lol.

Very hard to believe that Israel was threatening for weeks to bomb that hospital and then that hospital got bombed..

And then israel bombed several more hospitals and even admitted it....shocking that people think Israel was behind that hospital bombing right?

There's a video of the errant PIJ rocket landing on the hospital. The damage clearly showed that it was the parking lot that was hit and was totally congruent with an errant Gazan rocket.