Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[ComixZone]

So Frank is saying that the teams had zero idea, as the players already had legal cousnel and they were informed not to disclose it to their teams.

That 100% absolves the Flames from this in my eyes. The Flames can't formally assume a connection, or guilt.

It's pretty greasy by Dube to get out in front of the other players requesting their leave and request leave due to mental health though...even if it is true that he's suffering.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I don't have any personal stakes at play here, but I do feel personally offended by this all. Not sure exactly why, maybe it's like being tricked?
Dube, Lucic... these guys were shown to us as stand up, community minded guys who could play tough on the ice. The club was still using dube in charity events until recently! And now we find out that one is an alleged rapist and one is implicated in a disgusting domestic abuse incident. It's a lot. It's a lot to feel like the people you're supposed to support as heroes are actually total scum.

how do you trust what the club says now? How do you not think that the culture is absolute dog #### organization wide if guys like this were previously being highlighted as the best of the bunch?? It's pathetic.

Do you want to know what offends me?

That these players probably arent looking at jail time.

That there were officers and executives in Hockey Canada that had a 'Baked in Rape Slush Fund' that essentially says that this is 'OK.'

That that slush fund was funded with money from sponsors? Okay companies get screwed all the time.

That that slush fund was funded with money from the Government? Okay...taxpayers get screwed all the time.

That that slush fund was funded with money that average Canadians paid for Hockey Fees so their kids can play? Thats too damned far.

Nope. Not going to accept that. Throw those bastards in jail. The players responsible and every executive at the time.

You want to set a new standard? Its time to scorch some Earth and salt the land behind you.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Where do you come up with this stuff?

All it takes is a look online to see the Flames are being absolutely roasted (in many cases by their own fans) for being the only team to label their players absence for mental health. You are implying I am just fabricating this myself? If that is the case time to pull your head out of the sand.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Would you prefer a thread full of speculation exonerating the organisation and posters going “welp guess we’ll wait and see”?

Already tried that

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

In my company, if someone needs time away for mental health challenges, the company requires some sort of confirmation from a dr and then no further questions are asked. To suggest that the flames should have drilled down on what his issues would likely not be acceptable to HR policies or the union agreement. The statement the flames released would likely been driven from the notice they received on the subject. Not to mention that there is still no confirmation to my knowledge that Dube is guilty of anything. What if it turns out that he’s not being charged and does have mental health issues?

No one is saying they shouldn't have gave him leave. They are just saying they shouldn't have made it sound like it was for a mental health reason to the public.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

#### that. These kinds of charges don’t come out of nowhere. Calls to terminate the contract and banish these losers are absolutely justified.

I’m all about a fair justice system but people absolute can and are casting judgement on the players based on these accusations.

I don't need to wait for a trial and a conviction to know that something rotten happened in that hotel room when 5+ players were involved and the London Police is now laying charges 6 years later.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why? They werent even NHL players at the time.

This is a Hockey Canada problem not an NHL problem.

And I disagree with your premise. Not that I dont think it should 'cost people their jobs' but that I think it should cost them their jobs because they cant perform their duties from Prison.

These people should be going to jail.

Not just the players involved, everyone who paid off or covered it up is complicit. Every coach, every executive...

Get 'em all and let Courts sort it out and then salt the Earth behind them.

Hockey culture needs to change badly.

Start at the top. Bettman may not be in charge of Hockey Canada or even the problem, though I would argue he is part of the problem. He needs to go.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol social media

Oilers are great for giving Perry and Kane a second chance

Flames terrible as always

meanwhile Bob Nicholson

Oilers were absolutely blasted on social media for signing Kane and somewhat less for Perry.

[Flamesfan05]

Dube tried to hide but unfortunately it’s been obvious for awhile now. Some of us just didn’t want to believe it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You're never going to know the process that went into that release so I guess, let it go or something.

Honestly I don't think it should be let go.

It was another little way of the hockey world protecting these guys that don't deserve to be protected.

Sure maybe there was some legal implication that the Flames had to follow, but honestly I think that's giving them a pass. I've never seen legal guidance that tells a team to disclose more information than necessary instead of less.

And plus how does Oliver Kylington feel now that his situation was treated the same as Dube.

Or how about Rasmus Andersson who pretty much blamed Dube's mental health situation on "twitter monsters"

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/flames...k-before-write

If I were those guys I'd probably be feeling pretty pissed today too.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

#### that. These kinds of charges don’t come out of nowhere. Calls to terminate the contract and banish these losers are absolutely justified.

I’m all about a fair justice system but people absolute can and are casting judgement on the players based on these accusations.

Cecil Terwilliger abused me.

"Bake 'em away, toys"

Nah, being accused of something is not the same as being guilty of something.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

#### that. These kinds of charges don’t come out of nowhere. Calls to terminate the contract and banish these losers are absolutely justified.

I’m all about a fair justice system but people absolute can and are casting judgement on the players based on these accusations.

Wasn’t talking about casting judgement on the players
More about the rush to judgement for how the Flames responded

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I think more like Dube’s lawyer or agent contacted the Flames in writing and said “he is taking a leave for mental health reasons and we expect that to be clearly stated. Any other statement or omission could be considered slanderous “

lol what? A statement with no details or insinuations in it would be a ####ing galaxy away from qualifying as slander, lmfao, wtf

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Torture

Could have and should have just said that he was taking an indefinite leave. No reason to add that it was for mental health reasons.

It could have been for mental reasons. Wouldn't that require a doctor's approval, if so, :maybe the Flames really don't have a say in the matter at that point.

A lot of people applauded how the Flames handled the Peter's situation where some other organizations didn't handle their situations very well. The point being that sometimes that as things come up for the first time it sets precedent on how things are handled going forward.

Over the years we've seen countless fans make baseless observations about players that turned out to be absolutely wrong.; Yet here some are telling us what the. Flames should have done with a situation that just came up for the first time.

Could the Flames have handled better, absolutely. Did they handle it well the first time;? They probably did the best they could with the information they were given. Let's not forget the Dube was probably not allowed to talk to anyone about what happened because of legal ramifications. The Flames were probably in the same situation and wer l not allowed to ask any questions related to the investigation, or they could have found themselves criminally involved.

The request from Dube for mental health leave probably fell under the same category where the Flames couldn't ask a lot of questions at the time, and were just following the doctor's orders.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So Frank is saying that the teams had zero idea, as the players already had legal cousnel and they were informed not to disclose it to their teams.

That 100% absolves the Flames from this in my eyes. The Flames can't formally assume a connection, or guilt.

It's pretty greasy by Dube to get out in front of the other players requesting their leave and request leave due to mental health though...even if it is true that he's suffering.

Frank is doing the team and NHL's dirty work here for sure. Remember when he said the leave of absence for Hart and Dube were not related or connected to the WJC team.

I have absolutely no connections to the Flames or Hockey Canada, but on Friday night before this all broke out I had been told that Dube and Hart would be implicated in this and were likely to be two of the big names.

If I knew about it before his leave of absence then there is no way the Flames had no idea.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Cecil Terwilliger abused me.

"Bake 'em away, toys"

Nah, being accused of something is not the same as being guilty of something.

We are past the point of simple accusations. Charges are now being laid. A police investigation that took years has concluded. We know 5 (or more people) were in that room with a girl.

Whether or not Dube and the others are found guilty of rape or something else - they did something rotten. I don't need to wait for a conviction to have an opinion.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I think more like Dube’s lawyer or agent contacted the Flames in writing and said “he is taking a leave for mental health reasons and we expect that to be clearly stated. Any other statement or omission could be considered slanderous “

I am fairly certain not publishing something cannot be considered libel, given that a condition of libel is the publishing of something. If the Flames said nothing they could not be sued for libel.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Hockey culture needs to change badly.

Start at the top. Bettman may not be in charge of Hockey Canada or even the problem, though I would argue he is part of the problem. He needs to go.

Sure...but he's a businessman and a lawyer responsible for an entirely different organization.

I'd bet you that Bettman can't even skate. He's there to make owners money. This is really not his problem.

Short of being in that hotel room with a crow-bar I dont really see what he could have done.

The blame here lays very firmly with Hockey Canada who are responsible for the culture these kids grow up in, the consequences or lack thereof, and the rape slush-fund.

I think you and I are of the same idea, I just dont think Bettman has anything to do with it, or can do anything about it. By the time the players get to the NHL the damage is apparently done. What can anyone expect Bettman to do about it?

By the time they hit the NHL they're adults and employees and are to be treated as such. Before they get to the NHL they're kids.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Cecil Terwilliger abused me.

"Bake 'em away, toys"

Nah, being accused of something is not the same as being guilty of something.

Multi-year investigation is different than a comment in passing.

Dube is technically not guilty but the police feel they have enough evidence to charge him. This is different than a flippant accusation

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Frank is doing the teams dirty work here for sure.

I have absolutely no connections to the Flames or Hockey Canada, but on Friday night before this all broke out I had been told that Dube and Hart would be implicated in this and were likely to be two of the big names.

If I knew about it before his leave of absence then there is no way the Flames had no idea.

Regardless, until they formally know they can't act on it.

The Flames themselves likely have a policy surrounding mental health at this stage, and unless they were formally notified that Dube was involved and being charged (or convicted) - the policy likely dictates they do what they did.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Multi-year investigation is different than a comment in passing.

Dube is technically not guilty but the police feel they have enough evidence to charge him. This is different than a flippant accusation

Dube is technically not guilty at this stage. That's the end of it. Until he's guilty, he's not guilty.