Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

What I'm saying is if I'm the Flames I wouldn't care how Dube or his representation wanted it worded, Dube and his agent can't force the Flames to issue that it's about mental health in the release.

All you say is "Dube requested and was granted an indefinite leave of absence for personal reasons. The club will have no further comment at this time."

There is no way they were forced to include mental health. It's a choice they made.

OK you seem certain on that and i'm not going to convince you that perhaps they didn't have a full choice.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by petemoss

go look at social media if you don't think this 'mental health' leave isn't a pr hit for the flames.

It was a mistake and a dumb response.

Don't really care about social media responses.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't disagree on principle but I suspect it might end up being far more palatable (and expedient) for all involved to let that contract quietly expire in six months instead of staging a resource-intensive legal battle over the validity of said termination.

I would argue it's neither.

It isn't expedient because it's 6 months (as opposed to now) and it isn't more palatable because they'd be giving out a million bucks to an alleged gang rapist when they otherwise could have elected not to.

Terminate the contract. The PR value of doing that ought to be way higher then the legal fees in a PA grievance.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Go look at social media if you don't think this 'mental health' leave isn't a PR hit for the Flames.

It was a mistake and a dumb response.

lol social media

Oilers are great for giving Perry and Kane a second chance

Flames terrible as always

meanwhile Bob Nicholson

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The more I think about this, the more I hate it.

Dube had six years to feel bad or guilty about his involvement in this incident. It wasn't until he was about to be arrested for it that apparently his mental health was affected.

Just absolutely disgusting.

Had to make sure he made whatever millions he could before reality came crashing down. Made a mockery of the Flames and fans. Mental health issues or not, his contract should be terminated after Feb. 5th.

[dammage79]

So Dube maybe got a little suicidal after learning he's going to be charged. Ended up in health cares hands. Can this not be one and the same?

Either way, the lynching of the Flames organization over a few words is a bit much. They knew what they knew and it doesn't matter how they worded his release.

We know the Flames organization has been a class act in similar situations in the past. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt.

I say that even though I believe hockey culture on the whole is the root cause of all the toxic behavior from these coddled protected players.
.
End of the day, these players now get their charges, will go to court and all the teams will move on.

[Yeah_Baby]

I wonder if LPD moves up their presser now

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Would you prefer a thread full of speculation exonerating the organisation and posters going “welp guess we’ll wait and see”?

Would I prefer that people admit they don't know the details before casting judgement. Yes. Yes I would.

[questionmotives]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Don't really care about social media responses.

The Flames and NHL care.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

To be direct, it was the "quietly expire" portion that bugged me. Expedient would be Conny coming out today with a presser notifying the hockey world of their knowledge of the situation and intent to terminate the contract.

I do agree with the rest of what you said.

Right. I would like to see that happen, too. I think the organization has to have a response — they're being grilled for this, and rightfully so — but until I actually see it happen, I'm not sure I'll believe it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

This should cost a lot of people their jobs.

First has to be Bettman.

Why? They werent even NHL players at the time.

This is a Hockey Canada problem not an NHL problem.

And I disagree with your premise. Not that I dont think it should 'cost people their jobs' but that I think it should cost them their jobs because they cant perform their duties from Prison.

These people should be going to jail.

Not just the players involved, everyone who paid off or covered it up is complicit. Every coach, every executive...

Get 'em all and let Courts sort it out and then salt the Earth behind them.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK you seem certain on that and i'm not going to convince you that perhaps they didn't have a full choice.

If you have real evidence then say it...if you know for a fact that the Flames were forced to use that wording then just say you have inside intel that they were forced.

Unless you have that then I think my position is way more justifiable than the counter argument...because 2 other NHL teams proved they could word it without saying mental health.

[Monahammer]

I don't have any personal stakes at play here, but I do feel personally offended by this all. Not sure exactly why, maybe it's like being tricked?
Dube, Lucic... these guys were shown to us as stand up, community minded guys who could play tough on the ice. The club was still using dube in charity events until recently! And now we find out that one is an alleged rapist and one is implicated in a disgusting domestic abuse incident. It's a lot. It's a lot to feel like the people you're supposed to support as heroes are actually total scum.

how do you trust what the club says now? How do you not think that the culture is absolute dog #### organization wide if guys like this were previously being highlighted as the best of the bunch?? It's pathetic.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I mentioned this before but that's not unusual.
People are really good at hiding things or not dealing with them. They sit their in the back of your mind, but you can put it aside.
Until it hits.
When the cards crumble around you, and the consequences of your actions catch up with you, and the realities of what that could mean for your life and family - that's when mental crisis often hits. Often that's when people turn to suicide.

I like this quote from a Stephen King book that speaks to this:

“So do we pass the ghosts that haunt us later in our lives; they sit undramatically by the roadside like poor beggars, and we see them only from the corners of our eyes, if we see them at all. The idea that they have been waiting there for us rarely if ever crosses our minds. Yet they do wait, and when we have passed, they gather up their bundles of memory and fall in behind, treading in our footsteps and catching up, little by little.”"

When they catch up. It all falls apart.

Excuse for what has been repeatedly reported and confirmed as an awful act. If this was my sister involved, I would reap and sow much much more than a contract termination...

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

TSN just dropped an article stating the 5 players are the ones being charged. Bad look for the Flames now knowing Dube will be charged as he was the only one to cite mental health as his reason for leaving and almost certainly confirms why he played like crap all year.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[ResAlien]

It’s somewhat refreshing to see that the majority of people making excuses for the player and team have knocked it off.

Dube’s played his last game with the Flames, anyone in management who knew about this should be let go, and that’s that. Stop supporting rape culture.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol social media

Oilers are great for giving Perry and Kane a second chance

Flames terrible as always

meanwhile Bob Nicholson

Man you are the most brainless ####. THIS IS SOCIAL MEDIA. WE ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA RIGHT NOW.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

People understand. Both can be true.

But are you phrasing it this way to cover the potential that he EITHER has a mental crisis not associated with the case OR a mental crisis associated with the case?

We all probably agree that if he by coincidence sought health at this moment for a mental crisis NOT associated with the charges, then that is fair and reasonable.

But, if he sought help because of the charges being brought? A lot of people on here are not sympathetic to that. I think it could reduce the chances someone uses these support mechanisms in the future because they don't want to be associated with a system that was used like this by Dube.

Doesn't mean we don't "understand".

No I'm not.
I'm assuming his mental health crisis was related to all this.
But that means he still could have suffered a crisis and been under direct medical care at the time of the leave.

I don't expect people to have sympathy for Dube, nor have I asked that they should.

I'm challenging people with their knives out for the Flames and how they handled it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Man you are the most brainless ####. THIS IS SOCIAL MEDIA. WE ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA RIGHT NOW.

exactly and the responses are ridiculous

speaking of brainless, thanks for confirming my point...Flames are the worst ever as usual lol

meanwhile Edmonton praised

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Why would they have to word it that way though?

They didn't word it that way when Kylington was on a mental health leave.

None of the other teams had to word it that way.

I doubt there is anything that forced them to word it that way, it's a choice they made.

Maybe in each case they simply cited the reason given by the player’s agent.