Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[BeltlineFan]

Originally Posted by driveway

On the other hand, stress, shame, and guilt stemming from facing the consequences of such a disgusting illegal act are absolutely not mental health issues and are absolutely not deserving of sympathy, understanding, and support.

Everyone deserves access to mental health care and support regardless of cause. This is like a surgeon refusing to operate on someone they think is a murderer. The medical/mental health experts don't get to be the judge and jury.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I would argue it's neither.

It isn't expedient because it's 6 months (as opposed to now) and it isn't more palatable because they'd be giving out a million bucks to an alleged gang rapist when they otherwise could have elected not to.

Terminate the contract. The PR value of doing that ought to be way higher then the legal fees in a PA grievance.

These are very good points. The Flames have kinda made their own bed here.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So Dube maybe got a little suicidal after learning he's going to be charged. Ended up in health cares hands. Can this not be one and the same?

Either way, the lynching of the Flames organization over a few words is a bit much. They knew what they knew and it doesn't matter how they worded his release.

We know the Flames organization has been a class act in similar situations in the past. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt.

I say that even though I believe hockey culture on the whole is the root cause of all the toxic behavior from these coddled protected players.
.
End of the day, these players now get their charges, will go to court and all the teams will move on.

Just assume this player was an Oiler or played on some team you don't care about. Would you feel the same? Or are you just defending the team because you like them?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I'm not.
I'm assuming his mental health crisis was related to all this.
But that means he still could have suffered a crisis and been under direct medical care at the time of the leave.

I don't expect people to have sympathy for Dube, nor have I asked that they should.

I'm challenging people with their knives out for the Flames and how they handled it.

Thing is...even if Dube did have a mental health crisis and was under direct medical care at the time this was announced....what would have forced the Flames to disclose that info?

There is absolutely no legal standing that would have forced the Flames to disclose more information than they had to.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe in each case they simply cited the reason given by the player’s agent.

And in this case that would still be a stupid decision by the Flames.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

exactly and the responses are ridiculous

speaking of brainless

I'm happy to discuss why you feel like the opinions of the most dedicated possible fans of our organization are ridiculous in this scenario. IMO if we, the most steadfast supporters, are largely outraged by this, you might expect even more overwhelming outrage elsewhere. But please, megamind, tell us all why you think otherwise.

[Willi Plett]

Originally Posted by driveway

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the only way the Flames handled this correctly is if Dube, on his own, walked into the office and said "I need time away for mental health reasons."

If an employee of an organization makes a statement like that, the organization absolutely should proceed in the way the Flames did. It would be inappropriate of the Flames to second-guess such a statement.

If Dube is struggling with mental health as the result of a guilty conscience, then he absolutely deserves that consequence, should never receive sympathy, and should only receive support in the context of incarcerated rehabilitation.

I think more like Dube’s lawyer or agent contacted the Flames in writing and said “he is taking a leave for mental health reasons and we expect that to be clearly stated. Any other statement or omission could be considered slanderous “

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

It’s somewhat refreshing to see that the majority of people making excuses for the player and team have knocked it off.

Dube’s played his last game with the Flames, anyone in management who knew about this should be let go, and that’s that. Stop supporting rape culture.

The team is just going to have to fold after this PR nightmare.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you have real evidence then say it...if you know for a fact that the Flames were forced to use that wording then just say you have inside intel that they were forced.

Unless you have that then I think my position is way more justifiable than the counter argument...because 2 other NHL teams proved they could word it without saying mental health.

Didn't say I have evidence.
I'm just prepared to admit what we know and don't know.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

The team is just going to have to fold after this PR nightmare.

Murray going bankrupt because of hiring Navigator

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm happy to discuss why you feel like the opinions of the most dedicated possible fans of our organization are ridiculous in this scenario. IMO if we, the most steadfast supporters, are largely outraged by this, you might expect even more overwhelming outrage elsewhere. But please, megamind, tell us all why you think otherwise.

this guy

"I hate to say it but Perry will help the Oilers"

"OMG Flames MUST PAY FOR THIS"

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Now I want to know what the Flames knew, and for how long they knew.

You now want to know what the Flames knew, and for how long they knew... what, exactly?

You don't even know what you think you know.

(ie. No one knows what the actual charges are, or how those charges are being assigned. It's a single blanket article that has zero information about anything of substance. It does have a flashy title and nice big header image of five hockey players, though - which is the only requirement needed to satisfy the death penalty that social media has become.)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I think more like Dube’s lawyer or agent contacted the Flames in writing and said “he is taking a leave for mental health reasons and we expect that to be clearly stated. Any other statement or omission could be considered slanderous “

There is no way that omitting that could be considered slanderous.

Wouldn't hold up in any court.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Don't really care about social media responses.

The entire debate is about if the Flames made a PR error. I don't think the Flames put out their press release to be evil.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Thing is...even if Dube did have a mental health crisis and was under direct medical care at the time this was announced....what would have forced the Flames to disclose that info?

There is absolutely no legal standing that would have forced the Flames to disclose more information than they had to.



And in this case that would still be a stupid decision by the Flames.

You're never going to know the process that went into that release so I guess, let it go or something.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Willi Plett

I think more like Dube’s lawyer or agent contacted the Flames in writing and said “he is taking a leave for mental health reasons and we expect that to be clearly stated. Any other statement or omission could be considered slanderous “

If that’s the case then the Flames should have taken the indefinite leave of absence approach. Any further questions need to be directed to Dillon and his agent.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by BeltlineFan

Everyone deserves access to mental health care and support regardless of cause. This is like a surgeon refusing to operate on someone they think is a murderer. The medical/mental health experts don't get to be the judge and jury.

You're right, and in another post I changed my position to "should receive support in the context of incarcerated rehabilitation."

Sympathy however, I do not think should be forthcoming for those suffering from guilt for a crime of violence against another person.

[Tbull8]

Will be interesting to see if we hear from Conroy today/tomorrow to address it

[Pekkerhead]

In my company, if someone needs time away for mental health challenges, the company requires some sort of confirmation from a dr and then no further questions are asked. To suggest that the flames should have drilled down on what his issues would likely not be acceptable to HR policies or the union agreement. The statement the flames released would likely been driven from the notice they received on the subject. Not to mention that there is still no confirmation to my knowledge that Dube is guilty of anything. What if it turns out that he’s not being charged and does have mental health issues?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Would I prefer that people admit they don't know the details before casting judgement. Yes. Yes I would.

#### that. These kinds of charges don’t come out of nowhere. Calls to terminate the contract and banish these losers are absolutely justified.

I’m all about a fair justice system but people absolute can and are casting judgement on the players based on these accusations.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Murray going bankrupt because of hiring Navigator

I would not put it past Hatcher to be canvassing at the saddledome right now for this contract lol.