[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CalgarySames

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely pleased at how Sharangovich has panned our so far this year. But I feel like from a development standpoint having Coronato with Lindholm and Huberdeau would make even bigger waves. We are likely going to see Lindholm traded and I think Coronato would benefit greatly from playing with a 2 way center like Lindholm. Would help cover some of the mistakes Coronato is likely to make as a rookie. And I think he has a much higher ceiling than Sharangovich!

That's not to say that this couldn't still happen. They could bring up Coronato and make that a reality before the TDL but it seems less and less likely as time goes on. I'd really like to see them run these lines until the TDL:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Coronato
Zary-Kadri-Sharangovich

Post TDL:

Huberdeau-Zary-Coronato
Pelletier-Kadri-Sharangovich

Sharangovich has his legs underneath him now and I think it's well past time that Coronato was given prime time with the big club. And I really do think that Lindholm would help make that transition smooth and effective!

Coronato will get time with the team again, but he really needed to work on his skating and defensive game in the minors. He wasn't quite ready for a full time spot.

I do like your lines post-deadline though. Could be fun at the end of the year.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd pay real money to watch him coach an NHL game.

I wouldn't. He's a racist, garbage piece of ####.

[Mitch]

This trade is starting to look like a brilliant first move for Conny. It's taken half a season for Sharongovich to develop into a better player than Toffoli.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If you go back to the trade and listen to Toffoli his feelings got hurt when he was not a priority to sign, and he wanted out right away.

We got a good return for a guy who soured on us and didn't want to be here.

I think he is a pro and would not have caused issues, but you can't have a player like that around for too long.

Look at what happened with Zadorov.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Getting that for a 30-something expiring UFA and ALSO adding a 3rd round pick? I'm not sure your expectations are in line with reality if you wanted more than that.

Right now I think the only thing to complain about is the Conroy signed him to a deal that walks him to free agency at his earliest opportunity. In general I don't think you should ever do that.

I mean I get being disappointed in the return still... I mean it's still not a great return if you're on "Team Rebuild" because Yegor only had two years of team control left so he doesn't fit into the "correct" window. He still doesn't fit into the window in that respect but he's provided enough current value thus far to hopefully make any subsequent transactions involving him good for acquiring future value.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

If he doesn't want to re-sign you just do another trade like this one. I don't see the harm as long as you get good assets in return.

[Robbob]

From a pure asset management point this has been a grand slam. He comes in at 1.1M less in salary as Tofoli and has produced the same. Kicker is the Flames got another year and a Suniev while Tofoli will be hitting the UFA market. Like Cali said, if he prices himself out and is still putting up numbers, you can probably do a similar trade. Chances are the cap situation will be much better for all teams in a couple years since it is expected to go up 8M from what it is now.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

If you go back to the trade and listen to Toffoli his feelings got hurt when he was not a priority to sign, and he wanted out right away.

We got a good return for a guy who soured on us and didn't want to be here.

I think he is a pro and would not have caused issues, but you can't have a player like that around for too long.

Look at what happened with Zadorov.

He soured on Calgary because he wasn't a priority to resign, he didn't sour on Calgary because he didn't like the team. So why does this post smell of "good riddance" odor when management was the one that caused it? I am not sure we can force the player out and then say good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

He soured on Calgary because he wasn't a priority to resign, he didn't sour on Calgary because he didn't like the team. So why does this post smell of "good riddance" odor when management was the one that caused it? I am not sure we can force the player out and then say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Isn't that exactly what I said in my first sentence?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Right now I think the only thing to complain about is the Conroy signed him to a deal that walks him to free agency at his earliest opportunity. In general I don't think you should ever do that.

I mean I get being disappointed in the return still... I mean it's still not a great return if you're on "Team Rebuild" because Yegor only had two years of team control left so he doesn't fit into the "correct" window. He still doesn't fit into the window in that respect but he's provided enough current value thus far to hopefully make any subsequent transactions involving him good for acquiring future value.

But now he's a highly productive player that you can move at the next deadline for additional assets.

Kind of covered either way now with the player popping.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by timun

Absolutely not.



This reminds me so, so much of discussions about Andrew Mangiapane a couple years ago, where a lot of people argued Mangiapane ought to be locked in to a long-term >$5M AAV contract. And here we are one-and-a-half years into a 3x$5.8M contract and I don't think anybody would argue it's a good contract...

Well, it's not a bad contract. Mangiapane is on pace for 50 points, which is right in the range of what $6.0 m buys in today's market.

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[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Well, it's not a bad contract. Mangiapane is on pace for 50 points, which is right in the range of what $6.0 m buys in today's market.

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It's disappointing because he was paid to score goals. He is on pace for 16 goals after scoring 17 last year.

Thankfully we didn't sign him to a long term deal after he went on a heater for 1 season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It's disappointing because he was paid to score goals. He is on pace for 16 goals after scoring 17 last year.



Thankfully we didn't sign him to a long term deal after he went on a heater for 1 season.

He is payed to play hockey, and he has done that relatively well the past couple months.

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[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He is payed to play hockey, and he has done that relatively well the past couple months.

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He has been better, but overall his play and production has been disappointing for the contract he signed.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think the flat cap and high quality of the draft had a big impact on the market at the time. Teams simply did not want to move draft picks or take on cap hit. We were lucky to get back a young player with upside instead of just a dead weight cap dump. I also wouldn't be surprised if even Conroy was able to upgrade the 3rd to a 2nd, that Suniev was still the guy they wanted to draft. He was projected to go possibly as high as the late first round by some sources. A 1st rounder in that draft was likely never going to be offered. The alternative would have been to keep Toffoli this season and hope that he would have kept his value for a trade during the season, which would have been a risk.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm going to disagree seeing the trade was widely panned by NHL media so the criticism of the return isn't just a Flames fan take. I still think the Flames could and should have got more for him but I am also happy that Sharangovic is playing well.

At the same time look at how the market for older forwards established itself around that trade.

Hall (nothihg), Hayes (nothing), Johansen (nothing), Smith (3rd) were all moved for less than what the Flames got for Toffoli.

When you had Reilly Smith coming off a cup win and a 56 point season himself get moved for a 3rd it eased any of the concerns I had with the deal.

It hurt considering what they had paid, and maybe had they been proactive and moved them at the 2023 deadline they would have received more, but based on the timing of the trade that was what the market had evolved to.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think the flat cap and high quality of the draft had a big impact on the market at the time. Teams simply did not want to move draft picks or take on cap hit. We were lucky to get back a young player with upside instead of just a dead weight cap dump. I also wouldn't be surprised if even Conroy was able to upgrade the 3rd to a 2nd, that Suniev was still the guy they wanted to draft. He was projected to go possibly as high as the late first round by some sources. A 1st rounder in that draft was likely never going to be offered. The alternative would have been to keep Toffoli this season and hope that he would have kept his value for a trade during the season, which would have been a risk.

And since they would have had to clear cap space to do so, they would have had to make some other deal which, presumably, those options were worse.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

At the same time look at how the market for older forwards established itself around that trade.

Hall (nothihg), Hayes (nothing), Johansen (nothing), Smith (3rd) were all moved for less than what the Flames got for Toffoli.

When you had Reilly Smith coming off a cup win and a 56 point season himself get moved for a 3rd it eased any of the concerns I had with the deal.

It hurt considering what they had paid, and maybe had they been proactive and moved them at the 2023 deadline they would have received more, but based on the timing of the trade that was what the market had evolved to.

And honestly the price they paid was great.

They paid a rental rate for a guy they had for 1.5 years instead of .5, and won the division after he arrived which made the move logical.

If you take that extra year of usage into it and then factor in adding a 20 goal scorer and a 3rd round pick back, they did very well.

[OutOfTheCube]

It's the type of trade that accelerates a rebuild. You get a much younger, cost-controlled player who has already successfully stepped into a top 6 role. Yeah everyone loves first round picks because they're sexy to get in a trade, but the reality is with the late pick any contender would've maybe given up, you'd be pretty happy if they turned out to be a player like Sharangovich. And you'd also have to wait 3-5 years for it to happen.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And honestly the price they paid was great.

They paid a rental rate for a guy they had for 1.5 years instead of .5, and won the division after he arrived which made the move logical.

If you take that extra year of usage into it and then factor in adding a 20 goal scorer and a 3rd round pick back, they did very well.

The 1st we sent to Montreal also would have been a wild card for us anyways. Sharangovich was a consistent producer who can play in the NHL.