[PGT] Flames lose 3-0 to Blues. The 'they'll never score again' edition

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Toonage

This team doesn't have it. They don't have the ability to play better. Collectively they don't want to. The kids are probably lost watching these vets phone it in.

Trade deadline be damned, they need to start moving pieces now.

They're playing themselves into a good draft position and trade returns tend to get better later in the year.

In the wise words of Usher; gotta let it burn.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Yeah, I was surprised folks expected anything different over last season. This isn't game 8, it is game 90.

Let's not forget their best forward and leading scorer from last season was traded for a bottom 6 forward. Nobody should really be surprised that they look worse right now.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Last night they looked like a team playing out the last few games of a non playoff season.

Coaching has really held the team back the last few games. PLayers have been terrible. Just not a good mix.

This season will likely be like last season and hopefully we lose more in regulation than OT.

Really the 2 people to blame for this mess.

1. Edwards
2. Treliving

You had a get out of jail free card in the summer of 22. You could let Sutter walk with a retool or rebuild whatever you call it, you can get a futures deal for Tkachuk.

You have Lindholm, Backlund, and Toffoli that could net you a 1st at the deadline with salary retained.

Instead we have this to show for it.

You wont win in the NHL without a true elite #1 C.

We bottom out when wingers are at the top of the draft.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Why this man doesn’t at LEAST have an ‘A’ on his jersey is beyond me.

Why is he not the Captain? Backlund is soft

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This might be a dumb question - but - When Huberdeau scored 115 pts was he a superstar on the ice? What I mean by that is, did other teams fear him? Or did he collect a bunch of secondary assists, and wasn't actually as impactful as the number suggests? It sounds ridiculous even as I type it - he had to be an elite superstar, 115pts is a hell of a season... but I have literally seen no signs of a great player... barely any glimpses of elite vision, athleticism, etc. It is hard to imagine him putting up 115pts...

Huberdeau wasn't holding the puck for long periods of time. A lot of his plays were from moving the play forward on the rush, finding players through seams in the offensive and neutral zone, and utilizing the middle of the ice. The Flames don't play fast enough or create enough space for him to play like he did in Florida.


Chemistry with teammates is an issue, but it also feels like a huge part of Huberdeau's problems stem from bad coaching and systems.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flambers

Agreed, this is all on the players...

In the old days, a trade would really help to shake up the team

However with the cap issues, it won't happen

Not to mention that practically every player significant enough to make a shake-up also has some sort of trade protection. The Flames are severely limited when it comes to using trades as a tool to improve the team.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 868904

That’s the narrrative the anti-Sutter crowd wants to spew but the reality is last years team looked a lot more structured and better, the analytics also supported that. They scored enough to win most nights. They were done in by really bad goaltending from Markstrom; he didn’t have a single game last year as good as the ones he’s played this year. If he even played two games last year as well as he has this year, Flames make the playoffs and who knows how things end up in the playoffs.

This year, I don’t see that much structure, I’m not blaming Huska, it takes time to get a system down. Flames will play better as a team eventually, just in time to go from top 5 pick to 15th pick.

The way to combat what you think is a false-narrative isn’t to come up with a new, equally false one.

Markstrom had 8 games last year better than his best game this year. The problem wasn’t that he never played well, it’s that he had too many games where he was bad and not enough where he was just good enough. Conversely, he had 10 games last year where he was worse than his worst game this year.

The “structure” that Sutter had allowed for a ton of horrible opportunities against as well. As you alluded to, the team last year was also playing a structure most of them had played for over 100 games, and now they’re playing one many of them haven’t played in years (if at all). It takes time.

They don’t look good. Markstrom does look marginally better on average. But Sutter’s problems extended far past the system he employed, so I’m not sure pointing to the success implementation of that system alone as reason he wasn’t the problem makes any sense at all.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Huberdeau wasn't holding the puck for long periods of time. A lot of his plays were from moving the play forward on the rush and/or finding players through seams in the offensive and neutral zone. The Flames don't play fast enough or create enough space for him to play like he did in Florida.


Chemistry with teammates is an issue, but it also feels like a huge part of Huberdeau's problems stems from bad coaching and systems.

If a player needs a "perfect storm" to succeed, he really isn't a star, but just a complimentary player. A $10.5M complimentary player who put up star stats as a function of his prior system and line mates.

[Harpz0012]

Can't believe I spent 300 on a Huberdeau jersey thinking this would be the year he leads this team. Ugh....

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

[Tron_fdc]

I honestly do not understand how Huberdeau put up 115 points with Florida. Maybe the East is a little more wide open, because he seems completely smothered when he's on the ice.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Let's not forget their best forward and leading scorer from last season was traded for a bottom 6 forward. Nobody should really be surprised that they look worse right now.

What drove me crazy was folks saying "everything went wrong" last season. Looking back it felt like everything went right except for contract management.

A red hot start
A healthy roster
Roll players playing beyond contract value
A system that hid series offensive short comings


This year we know that there is no conspiracy, the team isn't good. the defensive coverage is awful, live you could see breakaways forming seconds before it happened. The offense is horrible, there really wasn't a dangerous chance all night.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I honestly do not understand how Huberdeau put up 115 points with Florida. Maybe the East is a little more wide open, because he seems completely smothered when he's on the ice.

His style doesn't fit on a slow team. Square peg and round hole.

[Reggie28]

I estimate about half of the seats were empty last night. On the bright side there was no lineup for the restroom, no lineup for beer and we were able to space out in our seats so no one was crowded. It was like a VIP experience, except the game sucked.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Harpz0012

Can't believe I spent 300 on a Huberdeau jersey thinking this would be the year he leads this team. Ugh....

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

Mail it to him and ask for a refund. He can afford it.

[Ashes]

Tank the Teamy for Celebrini?

[taxbuster]

This team looks like exactly what it is: a collection of players. That's it. No design. Just flotsam and jetsam floating around the league that got picked up randomly.

Tre could not have screwed this team more thoroughly if he'd planned it.

So folks, enjoy the 23-24 season!

Early in here: Sunday's Terribles vs. No Goods? We lose 10-0. Greasers rejoice. Ugh.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

So many people wanted a rebuild, but for some reason no one is happy in the PGTs.

This is what a rebuild looks like. You lose games with a bunch of mediocre players.

They told us they aren't doing the "R word". These are the reactions you get if you're told that the team is expected to win.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Maybe but even then memories in most Canadian markets are pretty short.

People pine for the "Gaudreau Days" now but from the Playoffs against Colorado to start of the 21-22 season people were ready to run him out of town.

Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner are great players, can have great seasons, but lose in the playoffs and you still get criticized all offseason like they did in Toronto this past year

If you're a star player in a Canadian market it's always your fault when your team loses in the playoffs. Doesn't matter what you did or if your carried your team to the playoffs in the end it ends up being your fault if you didn't win.

If I was good enough to play in the NHL I'd like to think that I would have loved to play for the Flames, but really if you're just a random Canadian kid without some type of fandom for your local team then why would you want to play in a Canadian market when you can probably play for more money, less pressure, and better weather in one of the US markets.

I don't think anyone, even the Gaudreau "haters", would suggest that he was a bad player, or that the team losing was all his fault. Obviously he was a great player, and the iterations of the team with him on it were a lot better than the dog team we have now. Just the issue was that iteration was old and tired, it had been run through 8 years of Gaudreau and multiple head coaches and there was a clear ceiling. There is a clear ceiling to a team's performance when Gaudreau is the best player, which isn't necessarily a chirp, it's hard to be that guy and Johnny could absolutely help a team win a Cup in the future, just not as THE guy. Last year in Columbus is even more proof of that. Given all that, plus the clear indications he was going to go to an American team I think a lot of people were at peace with the fact that the run of that core was over and we had seen what it could do. It was a good team that could make the playoffs but was never going to win anything and circumstances were lining up to end it's run. The mistake was not taking that a sign to just start the rebuild then and there, nice and clean, and now we are stuck with a Frankenstein team. So I guess in summation, I reserve my right to have complained about the Johnny teams near the end that they were never going to challenge for a cup and it would soon be over anyway when he left, but also complain that this team is an abomination and we should have been in year 2 of a rebuild by now.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If a player needs a "perfect storm" to succeed, he really isn't a star, but just a complimentary player. A $10.5M complimentary player who put up star stats as a function of his prior system and line mates.

Huberdeau was hitting 90 points per season even before he had the "perfect storm" in his last two years in Florida. We're talking about a player that averaged 92 points per 82 games in the six seasons prior to arriving in Calgary...

If anything, Huberdeau is proving that systems and coaching matter a lot. When you don't create the right conditions for players to succeed (e.g. Huberdeau needs to be surrounded by speed and chaos), they won't be effective how matter how skilled they are (e.g. Huberdeau's elite hockey sense and playmaking).

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The guy running the team was the previous GM's right hand man and the guy coaching the team was the previous head coach's assistant. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the team highly resembles the team from last season. I feel there was an opportunity to go clean slate from the Treliving/Sutter era but really this is more of an extension as Conny loves a lot of these players just like Treliving and the coach isn't having that effect of a fresh coach in the locker room.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Let's not forget their best forward and leading scorer from last season was traded for a bottom 6 forward. Nobody should really be surprised that they look worse right now.

With the trade market returning pennies on the dollar this past summer (as possibly evidenced by your second post), chances are no one would have been happy with whatever Conroy would have been able to get in return selling off the UFA's. Again with your second post, it doesn't appear that you would have been happy if the Flames had gone the other way during the off season with limited returns from trades.