[PGT] Flames lose 3-0 to Blues. The 'they'll never score again' edition

[Toonage]

I legitimately hate the phony rhetoric that players spew after losses or strings of losses like this. We hear it all the time, and it means nothing. If they had it in them to play better they would, while the game is going on. Not like the final whistle goes and they're like "well, I know I can do better than that."

We'd hear this sort of talk all the time from the likes of Iginla, Giordano, Tkachuk, basically everyone who has suffered through poor play en route to a lost season or a trade out of town.

This team doesn't have it. They don't have the ability to play better. Collectively they don't want to. The kids are probably lost watching these vets phone it in.

Trade deadline be damned, they need to start moving pieces now.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Yes they did.
We had the best line in the league that season and were lighting teams up for 7-9 goals many nights.
They were feared for sure.

I think it's a fair comparison to make. Flames put up 7-9 goals four times that year. Florida did it eight times.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by VilleN

This might be a dumb question - but - When Huberdeau scored 115 pts was he a superstar on the ice? What I mean by that is, did other teams fear him? Or did he collect a bunch of secondary assists, and wasn't actually as impactful as the number suggests? It sounds ridiculous even as I type it - he had to be an elite superstar, 115pts is a hell of a season... but I have literally seen no signs of a great player... barely any glimpses of elite vision, athleticism, etc. It is hard to imagine him putting up 115pts...

You can kind of see glimpses of it here. He sends a weird sneaky pass to a guy but for whatever reason they can't handle it. He had 54 primary assists in his 115 point year, so he wasn't just getting a secondary assists from cycling the puck.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I think it's a fair comparison to make. Flames put up 7-9 goals four times that year. Florida did it eight times.

Teams definitely feared Florida that year too.
I was only commenting on the fearing Gaudreau part. Maybe I missed the context, my apologies if so.

[The Cobra]

Huberdeau last year had about half as many SOG as his norm, and it has continued this year.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Did other teams "fear" Gaudreau? No, but both were elite play making wingers. Hubereau was every bit a superstar in those years in Florida. He isn't that here, which makes it all the more frustrating

Yeah, I think they definitely did. He was a wizard with the puck at times - watching him, his skill was undeniable. Teams definitely game planned for him. I didn't watch Huberdeau during his 115 pt season, so that's what I'm wondering - Has there been a spacejam-like alien invasion where Huberdeau's talent was stolen... because, he looks average at best in the O-zone, and in the D zone he doesn't even look NHL calibre.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Did other teams "fear" Gaudreau? No, but both were elite play making wingers. Hubereau was every bit a superstar in those years in Florida. He isn't that here, which makes it all the more frustrating

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Teams definitely feared Florida that year too.
I was only commenting on the fearing Gaudreau part. Maybe I missed the context, my apologies if so.

No, you're fine! The question was about whether Huberdeau was feared as a superstar on the ice during the 115 point year. Which I don't know since the only time I ever watched them was when Calgary played them. Gaudreau definitely was part of the line that drove things for the Flames, but maybe Huberdeau wasn't over there? Although with a total like that, you'd almost have to think he was.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Huberdeau last year had about half as many SOG as his norm, and it has continued this year.

I just don’t see a bounce back in the cards for Huberdeau. I think it’s much more likely that he’s in his 30’s and is regressing than it is just a one-off season.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Trade deadline be damned, they need to start moving pieces now.

Moving good pieces now would limit the teams that could trade for them. Most of the contenders don't have the cap space yet, and it's the contenders that generally want rentals.

Once the season started, it limited the trade window to generally the trade deadline.

Plus, the Flames management has zero intention of throwing in the towel yet. And no reason to do so, the trade value of these players isn't decreasing as the season wears on, and maybe something changes. I know the Flames have looked pathetic, but really nothing to lose to wait it out a bit.

[flambers]

Last night game, however is not just about Huberdeau. Most of the team was off, very few looked sharp

Depth players continue to be their best players, top line players really struggled.

Blues at times, completely dominated.

I was at the game, they showed 4 shots for the Flames in the 2nd period

My thought was where was the 4 shots.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The team is no good but the coaches aren't helping.

Another season where the "coaching adjustments" seem to actively make the team worse.

Please just stop. There is no way this is getting pinned on coaching again, and needs to stop being the crutch of this franchise when things are going sideways.

This group (for the most part) is on coach number 3, possibly even 4 if you want to count Peters. Let's cut the poo poo and pin this on the players, specifically the stars, who literally look like garbage and clearly don't care at all.

If this is the type of effort they want to put in, they should be more than happy to retire and walk away from their deals. Otherwise pull your pants up and start at least working because this is nothing short of embarrassing.

[flambers]

Agreed, this is all on the players...

In the old days, a trade would really help to shake up the team

However with the cap issues, it won't happen

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Please just stop. There is no way this is getting pinned on coaching again, and needs to stop being the crutch of this franchise when things are going sideways.

This group (for the most part) is on coach number 3, possibly even 4 if you want to count Peters. Let's cut the poo poo and pin this on the players, specifically the stars, who literally look like garbage and clearly don't care at all.

If this is the type of effort they want to put in, they should be more than happy to retire and walk away from their deals. Otherwise pull your pants up and start at least working because this is nothing short of embarrassing.

The team sucks but Huska so far has them playing the same offensive system that didn't work last year

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Lindholm is probably costing himself millions of dollars by not signing what the Flames offered.

Anyone that gives him north of $7M/year is a fool and I sure hope it isn’t us.

I get the feeling the guy doesn’t want to be here no matter how much you offer him. His body language doesn’t show someone who wants to stay

[Erick Estrada]

The guy running the team was the previous GM's right hand man and the guy coaching the team was the previous head coach's assistant. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the team highly resembles the team from last season. I feel there was an opportunity to go clean slate from the Treliving/Sutter era but really this is more of an extension as Conny loves a lot of these players just like Treliving and the coach isn't having that effect of a fresh coach in the locker room.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I’ve seen posts saying “ I feel sorry for Conroy “. Why? Posters act like he came from another organization. He is part of the crew that created this mess. He has said he believes in this group of players and is trying to lock up the remaining core players. His coaching hire reeks of Geoff ward 2.0. My only hope now is lindholm and hanifin tell him they won’t re-sign under any conditions. The whole team , coaches and management needed to be purged this off season.

What is Conroy supposed to say? "This group is no good"? Who was he supposed to hire instead, with no money available thanks to another ill advised Treliving extension to Sutter.

Treliving absolutely mucked this team up with the handling of Tkachuk and Gaudreau and subsequent trade for Huberdeau and signing of Kadri. If you're suggesting Conroy should be blamed for that, it is pretty weak.

There is quite literally no way out of this mess that will result in an immediate turn-around in terms of tanking or winning and really, the franchise deserves what it gets for fighting the current again. These contracts are essentially buyout proof, and players like Hanifin, Lindholm are diminshing assets given the way the season is playing out.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

What is Conroy supposed to say? "This group is no good"? Who was he supposed to hire instead, with no money available thanks to another ill advised Treliving extension to Sutter.

Treliving absolutely mucked this team up with the handling of Tkachuk and Gaudreau and subsequent trade for Huberdeau and signing of Kadri. If you're suggesting Conroy should be blamed for that, it is pretty weak.

There is quite literally no way out of this mess that will result in an immediate turn-around in terms of tanking or winning and really, the franchise deserves what it gets for fighting the current again. These contracts are essentially buyout proof, and players like Hanifin, Lindholm are diminshing assets given the way the season is playing out.

Right. Is he supposed to be like all these players suck. Come and get them cheap. If there were good offers for Lindholm and Hanifin in the offseason then maybe they'd be gone.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The team sucks but Huska so far has them playing the same offensive system that didn't work last year

That’s the narrrative the anti-Sutter crowd wants to spew but the reality is last years team looked a lot more structured and better, the analytics also supported that. They scored enough to win most nights. They were done in by really bad goaltending from Markstrom; he didn’t have a single game last year as good as the ones he’s played this year. If he even played two games last year as well as he has this year, Flames make the playoffs and who knows how things end up in the playoffs.

This year, I don’t see that much structure, I’m not blaming Huska, it takes time to get a system down. Flames will play better as a team eventually, just in time to go from top 5 pick to 15th pick.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Right. Is he supposed to be like all these players suck. Come and get them cheap. If there were good offers for Lindholm and Hanifin in the offseason then maybe they'd be gone.

That's exactly the problem. Toss Vladar in their too.

If the team doesn't realize that the market isn't there, and it certainly isn't holding any of these Flames players in the highest regard over the seasons they may have had 2 years ago, you either need to cut your losses and take an offer that's out there, or re-up with these players and continue down this path that leads nowhere good.

To me it's clear, but if the mandate from ownership is otherwise, I guess Conroy has to re-sign these guys and hope for the best.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The guy running the team was the previous GM's right hand man and the guy coaching the team was the previous head coach's assistant. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the team highly resembles the team from last season. I feel there was an opportunity to go clean slate from the Treliving/Sutter era but really this is more of an extension as Conny loves a lot of these players just like Treliving and the coach isn't having that effect of a fresh coach in the locker room.

Yeah, I was surprised folks expected anything different over last season. This isn't game 8, it is game 90.