2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Why not? I thought all you have to do is make the playoffs and anything can happen?

No one here says any such thing. It’s a straw man.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How are you defining veteran?

Jeff Skinner had 579 regular season games under his belt and Kyle Okposo had 529 when they extended/signed their deals with the Sabres. If +500 regular season games isn’t a veteran, I guess I don’t know what one is.

Skinner was 27 and Okposo 28 when they signed their deals.

When you are talking about unwise contacts, we are talking about 8 years for 30 year olds.

Skinner's takes him to 35, Okposo's is already over.

The number of games is irrelevant, as some players start when they are 18.

For the puprposes of contracts, I would define veternas based on age.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

So many holes in this.

Easy to say ‘if a rebuild takes only 10 years, so be it’ when you have no skin in the game. Sounds like a fan who doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

You would rather go through a 10 year rebuild and come out with a legitimate shot at a cup? News flash, there’s no guarantee after 10 years the Flames would be in a better position than they are now. That’s a hope.

You would way rather see them swing and miss? Isn’t that what you could say they are doing right now? I get the sense that if after 10 years after missing the playoffs and they weren’t contenders you wouldn’t be sitting there saying ‘oh well, they tried’. You would be posting about who is an idiot and who sucks and why aren’t the Flames contenders etc etc.

Entertainment? To who? I suspect the owners will have more success making the playoffs, even if it’s not every year, than 10 years out. I would bet there are 10-20 casual fans for every hardcore fan in the City. Making the playoffs is good for business.

Well first off there was no discussion of the owners. That's a completely separate argument. We're talking about the fan experience.

I already said it wasn't a guarantee by saying I'd rather swing and miss. Nothing is a guarantee so this is an extremely poor reason to not do something. Clearly the current strategy hasn't worked so there's that...

And it's pretty universal that winning a Cup is the epitome of entertainment for the sport. A deep run would be 2nd. Anyone on this board would likely agree that the 04 run is their highlight experience of being a Flames fan unless you were of age to enjoy 89. So ya it's pretty safe to say that from an entertainment standpoint, missing playoffs, losing 1st round, winning a round, is basically in the middle for overall entertainment. If a 1 is finishing last place and a 10 is winning it all, Flames fans get a 4-6 pretty much every season. Basically a less successful Minnesota Wild.

[Bingo]

I don't think trying to win every year is a bad thing.

Hard to respect full on tank teams in my opinion.

But that's not to say you have to trade futures to bolster an average team to get in, and then keep yourself in sub average perpetuity.

Tighten up the asset management (which Conroy has alluded to), draft well (and get lucky) and things can turn around without purposely losing for a half decade.

Will it happen?

It'll take some luck, but the Dallas model has to be the plan if you have an older core locked up I would think.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Now does Sec's post mean the thread has been derailed, or that he knows something that will send us all off the tracks?

Can't think of anyone named Tom or Thomas.....Tomas Tatar?

Haha… I wish I had something for you guys but ya’ll seem to have enough to talk about, carry on…

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

When you are talking about unwise contacts, we are talking about 8 years for 30 year olds.

Skinner's takes him to 35, Okposo's is already over.

The number of games is irrelevant, as some players start when they are 18.

For the puprposes of contracts, I would define veternas based on age.

Okay, Sure. I won’t argue age isn’t a factor. It is.

But, that said, this fear that keeps getting trotted out that every single player falls off a cliff past the age of 30 isn’t accurate. You only need to look at one recent and one current Flame to see that players can contribute or even hit career highs into their mid-thirties. Seems to me a good chuck of the league, even teams that are contenders, have +30 year olds with term.

I’ll acknowledge that those 7-8 year deals the Glames already have are all but certainly not going to be pretty at the end of it, specifically Huberdeau, but what’s the going rate for a 3C in 2028-29 going to be? It wouldn’t be too surprising if Kadri’s $7M isn’t that bad. I would slso say Weegar’s $6.25 is not and won’t be too concerning. Huberdeau is the scary one and only because of bonuses and contract structure. If the Flames get to the point where they want to buy him out, it could be a problem.

When a team, such as the Flames, make these commitments to players who are nearing 30, I’m sure they have more info than we do. They moved Toffoli when they knew what his ask on term was going to be. On the other hand they’ve made it clear they want to resign Lindholm and are willing to be patient to do so. I suspect they are pretty comfortable with the player.

[Heavy Jack]

This forum is in urgent need of hockey action lol

[dammage79]

Just hope the Hanifin trade is worth the wait.

I was listening to a noodles interview yesterday and I liked his thoughts on the Toffoli trade. Called it a shrewd move to get younger, faster and more driven. Said that while toffoli was the leading goal scorer, getting faster, better PK personel and losing a few years off of the age bracket will help this Flames team much more.

He also said Sharangovich will be a big time player for CGY. Based on his 5v5 play and lack of PP time.


Long and short of it, I hope the Hanifin trade has a similar type of savvy vibe to it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

It'll be tough to assess if it was worth the wait, without being to compare what they end up getting with what was being offered currently.

[Eric Vail]

Whenever I hear someone saying they need to deal our soon to be UFAs by a certain time and just accept the best offer we can get, it reminds me of when they traded Gilmour and Savard because that is what happened then.

Come the trade deadline, your hand is somewhat forced, but not before then.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Whenever I hear someone saying they need to deal our soon to be UFAs by a certain time and just accept the best offer we can get, it reminds me of when they traded Gilmour and Savard because that is what happened then.

Come the trade deadline, your hand is somewhat forced, but not before then.

Gilmour had a family and child care issues.

Savard was hated by the coach.

I don’t remember either player being subject to a deadline.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Gilmour had a family and child care issues.

Savard was hated by the coach.

I don’t remember either player being subject to a deadline.

Thought Gilmour was about money….

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think trying to win every year is a bad thing.

Hard to respect full on tank teams in my opinion.

But that's not to say you have to trade futures to bolster an average team to get in, and then keep yourself in sub average perpetuity.

Tighten up the asset management (which Conroy has alluded to), draft well (and get lucky) and things can turn around without purposely losing for a half decade.

Will it happen?

It'll take some luck, but the Dallas model has to be the plan if you have an older core locked up I would think.

Why were the Flames any good at all from 2017 to 2022? Did you respect the Flames prior to that, because they actually did deliberately rebuild.
They ended the Iginla era in 2013, traded away most of the remaining vets, and ended up getting some of their highest draft picks ever in the following years (Bennett, Monahan, Tkachuck) at least 2/3 of those were foundational reasons for their change in fortunes. This is the key -- these weren't fluke draft picks from the mid to late first round, they were top 10 picks that were projected to be franchise changing --- and 2/3 were.

It was only 2 years after trading Iginla that they won a round and people were getting excited about the young nucleus of players.

Rebuilding does not mean 12 years of garbage like Buffalo. But you have to swallow a bitter pill for a few years just to get those really top end draft picks. The Flames continuing to pick mid draft is highly unlikely to yield those results.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Thought Gilmour was about money….

100% it was.

Flames offered 400 or 450 i cant remember, he wanted 750....it went to arbitration and Gilmour was given 650.


Risebrough was livid and the trade happened shortly afterward but Gilmour had already made arrangements to leave the team and skate with Team Canada.

It was a damn mess all the way around. Then the trade exacerbated everything.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Why were the Flames any good at all from 2017 to 2022? Did you respect the Flames prior to that, because they actually did deliberately rebuild.
They ended the Iginla era in 2013, traded away most of the remaining vets, and ended up getting some of their highest draft picks ever in the following years (Bennett, Monahan, Tkachuck) at least 2/3 of those were foundational reasons for their change in fortunes. This is the key -- these weren't fluke draft picks from the mid to late first round, they were top 10 picks that were projected to be franchise changing --- and 2/3 were.

It was only 2 years after trading Iginla that they won a round and people were getting excited about the young nucleus of players.

Rebuilding does not mean 12 years of garbage like Buffalo. But you have to swallow a bitter pill for a few years just to get those really top end draft picks. The Flames continuing to pick mid draft is highly unlikely to yield those results.

Except the best Flame was drafted in the 4th round, not the top 10.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Except the best Flame was drafted in the 4th round, not the top 10.

Great. The outlier doesn't disprove the rule. Because they got Gaudreau in the 4th round doesn't mean they should be using the strategy of stocking up on 4th round picks to get better. Most of your franchise changing players are likely to be top 10 picks, or even top 5.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Great. The outlier doesn't disprove the rule. Because they got Gaudreau in the 4th round doesn't mean they should be using the strategy of stocking up on 4th round picks to get better. Most of your franchise changing players are likely to be top 10 picks, or even top 5.

There is no rule. That's pretty much been proven already.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

There is no rule. That's pretty much been proven already.

There's a thing called probability. Why do you think a top 10 pick is a higher valued asset than a 4th round pick? They aren't the same. Obviously.

[PepsiFree]

I’m not sure that pointing to the Flames and saying “See how quickly they made the playoffs after rebuilding? Rebuilds don’t have to be short!” while arguing the Flames have to rebuild less than a decade later with two playoff round wins under their belt over that time frame.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Igottago

There's a thing called probability. Why do you think a top 10 pick is a higher valued asset than a 4th round pick? They aren't the same. Obviously.

Ya, except the example you used is a very poor one. Only Tkachuk ended up being a top tier player at his position. While I liked both Monahan and Bennett, neither were close to being top tier players at their positions. That leaves a top tier undrafted d-man (Giordano), a 4th round top tier LW Gaudreau, and a 6th overall top tier LW\RW Tkachuk. Then you have a great trade, bringing in Hanifin and Lindholm.