2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sure, if you look at it through the lens of today.

The point that was being made was the Sabres did not sign any boat anchor contracts during their rebuild, which they certainly did. Or, at the very least, would have been considered boat anchors at one point in time. All you need to do is go back a couple years when it was widely believed Jeff Skinner’s contract was one of the worst, if not the worst, contract in the league. Okposo’s was also widely acknowledged as a terrible/immovable contract.

Things change.

I think Skinner's contract will go back to being bad this season.

Last year he was 4th in the NHL out of players with more than 1000 minutes at 5v5 for on ice shooting %.

His individual shooting % at 5v5 was the second highest of his career. Only surpassed by his rookie season.

Maybe he'll get 60 points, but that's not value at $9 million.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If a rebuild takes 10 years so be it. I'd much rather go through a 10 year rebuild and come out of it with a legitimate shot of actually winning a cup then hovering around the middle for eternity. And those tough growing pain years would only make the successful years that much sweeter. I'd way rather see them swing and miss then just continue to hover around the middle from a standings perspective and entertainment perspective.

So many holes in this.

Easy to say ‘if a rebuild takes only 10 years, so be it’ when you have no skin in the game. Sounds like a fan who doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

You would rather go through a 10 year rebuild and come out with a legitimate shot at a cup? News flash, there’s no guarantee after 10 years the Flames would be in a better position than they are now. That’s a hope.

You would way rather see them swing and miss? Isn’t that what you could say they are doing right now? I get the sense that if after 10 years after missing the playoffs and they weren’t contenders you wouldn’t be sitting there saying ‘oh well, they tried’. You would be posting about who is an idiot and who sucks and why aren’t the Flames contenders etc etc.

Entertainment? To who? I suspect the owners will have more success making the playoffs, even if it’s not every year, than 10 years out. I would bet there are 10-20 casual fans for every hardcore fan in the City. Making the playoffs is good for business.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You would rather go through a 10 year rebuild and come out with a legitimate shot at a cup? News flash, there’s no guarantee after 10 years the Flames would be in a better position than they are now. That’s a hope.

You would way rather see them swing and miss? Isn’t that what you could say they are doing right now? I get the sense that if after 10 years after missing the playoffs and they weren’t contenders you wouldn’t be sitting there saying ‘oh well, they tried’. You would be posting about who is an idiot and who sucks and why aren’t the Flames contenders etc etc.

If you're going the baseball analogy route, I'd suggest we're shortening the bat and swinging for a single or double.

[FlamesAddiction]

Did Buffalo ever commit to a real rebuild? People seem to think that because rebuilding teams tend to suck for a while, that all teams that suck for a while must be rebuilding. I don't think that is the case, especially with Buffalo. Maybe in more recent years, but for most of their playoff drought, they didn't seem to operate like they were rebuilding.

They missed the playoffs for 5 straight years with virtually the same core. Then they kept signing expensive players and making lateral trades along the way to try and be competitive. If they would have actually committed to a rebuild, they probably would have had a smoother ride. I don't think there was a real stretch of 3-5 years where the Sabres actually tried just building organically. From 2012 to 2021, they had like what, 3 picks in the top 5? They were typically bad, but not bad enough to really reap the benefits until recently. They kept Miller around much longer than they ought to have, then signed or traded for players like O'Reilly, Erhoff, Kane, Skinner, etc., to try and turn things around faster. It kept them drafting in the 8-13 spot most of the time.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Groot

Last time Buffalo was in the playoffs, Kiprusoff still had 2 seasons left before his retirement.

Ok....and the last time the Flames won the Stanley Cup, Wayne Gretzky was still in his prime. We can throw irrelevant info at each other all we want. What does Kiprusoff have to do with how well the Buffalo Sabres are doing right now?

The Sabres used to be one of the worse run franchises in the league. Now they are doing better, and have a way better farm system and an arguably better NHL roster than the Flames. Why get so defensive about it?

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think Skinner's contract will go back to being bad this season.

Last year he was 4th in the NHL out of players with more than 1000 minutes at 5v5 for on ice shooting %.

His individual shooting % at 5v5 was the second highest of his career. Only surpassed by his rookie season.

Maybe he'll get 60 points, but that's not value at $9 million.

Skinner's contract used to be Loui Eriksson bad. Like full on buy-out no other option. Now his contract is like Lucic with the Flames. Overpaid but the player plays a role on the team.

[TheScorpion]

As long as Skinner plays with Tage Thompson, that contract won't be bad. Pretty clear that the years under Krueger were the outlier, not what we're seeing now.

[blender]

The Sabres are the flavor of the day, but let's at least wait till they make the playoffs before we get too carried away.

Sabres fans would have given their left nut for the kind of winning the Flames have been doing since 2015.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Did Buffalo ever commit to a real rebuild? People seem to think that because rebuilding teams tend to suck for a while, that all teams that suck for a while must be rebuilding. I don't think that is the case, especially with Buffalo. Maybe in more recent years, but for most of their playoff drought, they didn't seem to operate like they were rebuilding.

They missed the playoffs for 5 straight years with virtually the same core. Then they kept signing expensive players and making lateral trades along the way to try and be competitive. If they would have actually committed to a rebuild, they probably would have had a smoother ride. I don't think there was a real stretch of 3-5 years where the Sabres actually tried just building organically. From 2012 to 2021, they had like what, 3 picks in the top 5? They were typically bad, but not bad enough to really reap the benefits until recently. They kept Miller around much longer than they ought to have, then signed or traded for players like O'Reilly, Erhoff, Kane, Skinner, etc., to try and turn things around faster. It kept them drafting in the 8-13 spot most of the time.

I think they did "commit" to a rebuild but it was mostly involuntary, the team was just managed so badly that they ended up being a dumpster fire for a really long time. They even lucked into a very good top pick in Eichel but managed to alienate him completely due to being so poorly managed. Then they again lucked into a really good top pick in Dahlin and now he's going into his sixth year and they still haven't made the playoffs.


I guess Buffalo kind of is a case example for the anti-rebuild crowd of how badly rebuilds can go when a team is mismanaged. They are now a better team than they were when Eichel got drafted but still they're hardly a team that anyone is scared of. Maybe that changes if they hit homeruns with their young guys but I haven't really seen signs of that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by blender

The Sabres are the flavor of the day, but let's at least wait till they make the playoffs before we get too carried away.

Sabres fans would have given their left nut for the kind of winning the Flames have been doing since 2015.

You're kidding yourself if you think any fanbase out there is thinking "hey, look at those Flames - they know what's up!"

Flames never change. They believe their approach is right no matter the irrefutable lack of success and mediocrity.

Since 2020, when Kevyn Adams took over, they have been the better run organization.

[blender]

Well, maybe, but they've never won anything.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by blender

Well, maybe, but they've never won anything.

Winning is less important than rebuilding.

That’s what the cool kids are doing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by blender

Well, maybe, but they've never won anything.

They do share our pain as an organization that had something stolen from them due to the incompetence of the NHL though...

Originally Posted by Goriders

Winning is less important than rebuilding.

That’s what the cool kids are doing.

Nah, just a belief that building a winner is a process that requires sacrifice. Patience is a virtue.

[Sec214]

[Sandman]

Now does Sec's post mean the thread has been derailed, or that he knows something that will send us all off the tracks?

Can't think of anyone named Tom or Thomas.....Tomas Tatar?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Now does Sec's post mean the thread has been derailed, or that he knows something that will send us all off the tracks?

Can't think of anyone named Tom or Thomas.....Tomas Tatar?

Tom Wilson?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Skinner's contract used to be Loui Eriksson bad. Like full on buy-out no other option. Now his contract is like Lucic with the Flames. Overpaid but the player plays a role on the team.

Lucic?

Skinner had 82 points last year.

That’s quite the role.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sure, if you look at it through the lens of today.

The point that was being made was the Sabres did not sign any boat anchor contracts during their rebuild, which they certainly did. Or, at the very least, would have been considered boat anchors at one point in time. All you need to do is go back a couple years when it was widely believed Jeff Skinner’s contract was one of the worst, if not the worst, contract in the league. Okposo’s was also widely acknowledged as a terrible/immovable contract.

Things change.

But these players would not have been considered veterans at the time they were signed. You removed the word “ veteran” from the qualification which completely changes the meaning and presumably the time line.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Now does Sec's post mean the thread has been derailed, or that he knows something that will send us all off the tracks?

Can't think of anyone named Tom or Thomas.....Tomas Tatar?

Pretty sure the former, that this thread is a wreck.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But these players would not have been considered veterans at the time they were signed. You removed the word “ veteran” from the qualification which completely changes the meaning and presumably the time line.

How are you defining veteran?

Jeff Skinner had 579 regular season games under his belt and Kyle Okposo had 529 when they extended/signed their deals with the Sabres. If +500 regular season games isn’t a veteran, I guess I don’t know what one is.

Skinner was 27 and Okposo 28 when they signed their deals.