32 Thoughts Podcast update on Calgary

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Or we could draft and develop one

Might need to draft in the top ten for that. As in, this year's top ten. Not your average year's.

Or get the needle in the haystack of deeper picks. But that's not something you can plan for or rely on.

If they can't keep them, selling at this draft might work out best for this team. If you must rebuild, best start immediately in an elite draft.

I hope they get a verdict from Elias by next week.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by NewFan

If Lindholm signs then Hanifin will be traded for a roster player. Hanifin + 16th for Nylander?

Did you mean to say Hanifin for Nylander?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

If we don't have a Lindholm we will constantly be looking for a Lindholm.

But it's important to understand age vs contract and more importantly how many age contracts you're signing. We blew our wad on age contracts and are now talking about Lindholm and Toffoli, both of which are 30-32 year old contracts at 6-8 years.

You can't have 5+ players on retirement contracts when we're not a Cup threat with those 5+ players. That's insanity, it leaves no room for anything and no hope of contending. We need to draft and develop going forward, not sign the "core" to massive contracts and then have no room for anything beyond hoping the same players can do way more than they've failed to do. Age is everything in the NHL now, and your comment disregards this.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

We need a bit more organizational pride. I get it’s Calgary and it sucks to play for and wah wah wah the dressing room and pressure or whatever but at the end of the day these are NHL jobs and multimillion US dollar contracts. If you don’t want to play here then fata off, we will build a winner without ya and you can go toil in mediocrity in some sunbelt city with disinterested fans elsewhere.

Two sunbelt cities just played in the Cup finals. Another recently went to the finals three years in a row and won two of them.

Canadian fans getting defensive and sneering about sunbelt cities isn’t going to make Canadian cities more attractive to play in.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Your entire argument is that you need depth. And your conclusion is that you need talent.

You're nitpicking words. Depth is obviously the key for almost all Cup winners. Part of good depth is good talent. Regardless of what you want to call it. Vegas had Eichel and Marchessault, Stone and Chandler, Karlsson and Smith. Then key depth players filling out the lines like Barbashev, Howden, Roy. Their top 6 defence is very strong. So strong top end talent with strong depth talent on both the forward and D group. It's pretty much the recipe for every cup winner. Some elite talent with very good depth. If you're missing either its pretty tough to win it all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You're nitpicking words. Depth is obviously the key for almost all Cup winners. Part of good depth is good talent. Regardless of what you want to call it. Vegas had Eichel and Marchessault, Stone and Chandler, Karlsson and Smith. Then key depth players filling out the lines like Barbashev, Howden, Roy. Their top 6 defence is very strong. So strong top end talent with strong depth talent on both the forward and D group. It's pretty much the recipe for every cup winner. Some elite talent with very good depth. If you're missing either its pretty tough to win it all.

That's the thing - as soon as a team has success, fans label their players as great. I have already stated my thoughts on Eichel and Stone, but Marchessault, Chandler, Karlsson and Smith are not elite. They are solid depth.

Again, your entire argument is demonstrating that Vegas has the most depth in the NHL - on that we agree. What drives me nuts is people look at players like that and then claim the Flames' players - Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli, Kadri, Backlund, Mangiapane - are talentless and not good enough. These players are every bit as good as the Vegas guys. And our defense has more depth than most teams as well.

Our problem isn't a lack of talent, it's that we need MORE good players. And that's why cap management is so important, and such a problem for Canadian teams. If you have to overpay for your players, it becomes even harder to accumulate enough depth.

The Oilers certainly have the talent, but they are unable to build the depth.

The Flames have a very deep team, but they are a couple solid players short. That's their problem. It isn't that their players suck (which seems to be the prevailing viewpoint around here these days). Add a Marchessault and a Karlsson to the team, and we the Flames are serious contenders too.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I would believe that a rebuild is very much on the table. Why wouldn't it be? It is obviously not plan A, probably not plan B either, but it most certainly is a choice on the table. Maloney said as much himself when he stated that there was a rebuild offer on the table for Tkachuk.

Trading Tkachuk for a rebuild package and not signing Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, long term would have put them in a much better position. Then using Hanifin, Lindholm to add to that group. Then consider moving a few of Backlund, Tanev, Toffoli, at the deadline. It would have been a nice start to a rebuild and your cap situation would be pretty clean. I'd find that young team a lot more interesting than trying to see how long this current group can tread water.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Two sunbelt cities just played in the Cup finals. Another recently went to the finals three years in a row and won two of them.

Canadian fans getting defensive and sneering about sunbelt cities isn’t going to make Canadian cities more attractive to play in.

Yeah I get that. It’s more about having some internal rules and boundaries and taking control of your own destiny / timelines. You can’t manage a business very well hoping that every wish and desire of 20 18-35 year old men is fully aligned with your planning, because that will never happen. You need to set boundaries and timelines and like I said, if they don’t want to play here then whatever, no point twisting in the wind hoping people agree when you overpay them. Hope is not a strategy.

Like was said before, the team would be better off with people eager / hungry to play in those jobs than people who don’t want to be here.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That's the thing - as soon as a team has success, fans label their players as great. I have already stated my thoughts on Eichel and Stone, but Marchessault, Chandler, Karlsson and Smith are not elite. They are solid depth.

Again, your entire argument is demonstrating that Vegas has the most depth in the NHL - on that we agree. What drives me nuts is people look at players like that and then claim the Flames' players - Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli, Kadri, Backlund, Mangiapane - are talentless and not good enough. These players are every bit as good as the Vegas guys. And our defense has more depth than most teams as well.

Our problem isn't a lack of talent, it's that we need MORE good players. And that's why cap management is so important, and such a problem for Canadian teams. If you have to overpay for your players, it becomes even harder to accumulate enough depth.

The Oilers certainly have the talent, but they are unable to build the depth.

The Flames have a very deep team, but they are a couple solid players short. That's their problem. It isn't that their players suck (which seems to be the prevailing viewpoint around here these days). Add a Marchessault and a Karlsson to the team, and we the Flames are serious contenders too.

Yes all 6 players I named are not elite. But that's why I said you need elite with depth. I would put Eichel and Pietrangelo in the elite category. Are they McDavid and Makar? No, but I still think they are legit number 1 center and dman in the league. Stone is debatable elite. The other guys are very strong depth. Karlsson and Smith are very strong 3rd liners. The ability for their 3 pairs to each carry a line is huge.

Flames lack a number 1 dman. Lindholm is not a true number 1 center to me but you can argue that. But if he leaves, that's a big hole. And the Flames don't have the luxury of time to fill these holes. Their window is immediate which is why I think trying to bet on this group has a really low probability of success. Playoffs sure but a real run basically everything would need to go right.

Basically they need to find out Hanifin and Lindholms plans and address that. If those guys leave I think it's over for this group. If they stay you can see how they perform with a new coach but you also risk not cashing in on them as well which hurts moving forward. The Flames have done that a lot already.