[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[Cube Inmate]

I don't agree with pylon but respect the candor. If I had the means to pay to save my life, I would want to be able to do that. Everyone has a self-preservation instinct. As it is, I'm investigating what options i have for diagnosis of an injury outside the public system.

As a matter of public policy, though, I disagree with Pylon... but at least it's a true matter for policy debate rather than "LOL! COMMUNISTS!"

Bad luck to you and yours on this election night!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by zamler

What would you do to fix that? (I don't know anyone that works hard and is in poverty).

Not make them poorer with large health care bills.

[V]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

So lower middle class to poor people can suck it then cause they can't afford much to offer…

Is this your experience? Pretty ignorant thing to say. In my time I’ve found the most charitable people both with their time and what money they have I know are people of little means.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't care vis-a-vis taking away people's rights to healthcare. Some sort of morbid justification that, hey I donate to charity, so let me buy Better Health Care than somebody who doesn't have money

If I give $40k to provide a few people with privatized healthcare I should get to demand that those people have reduced public healthcare as well.

[fotze2]

I’m pretty right wing fiscally. But I cannot wrap my head around the two tier thing.

If it actually took X numbers out of the QUE and DID NOT cannibalize the workforce or facilities I’d be ok with it. Butttt it would never work that way.

We already have a two tier system. Go to the US. Nothing stops that. Or is it too expensive there?

I have a f u cled aorta as well that will need a change out in the next few years. So maybe I change my mind.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Not make them poorer with large health care bills.

That will make everyone poorer.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by zamler

What would you do to fix that? (I don't know anyone that works hard and is in poverty).

Provide them a good public education and good public health care. That gives them the best chances.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

So lower middle class to poor people can suck it then cause they can't afford much to offer even though you know nothing of them, but at the same time some rich person gets judged differently even if they are a ######?

The hyperbole on this board is astonishing.

Shovel your 90 old neighbours driveway FFS, go serve soup at the Mustard Seed.

But yes. I totally expect a single mother of 4 kids working 2 jobs to donate time and money... that's totally what I think is acceptable.

FFS the people you are talking about are the people we need to help. And nobody is judging them.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by evman150

Nothing makes me LOL harder than super rich people thinking they work/worked harder than everybody else and thinking that's why they're super rich.

In the same post (or same set of posts) as saying his parents are in a super comfortable financial position to pay for US healthcare.

The cluelessness and lack of self-awareness is gobsmacking.

I find a lot of people fail to realize the advantages they had in life and really fall into the I did this all by myself trope. From my experience it is that they run in social circles where getting help from parents is the norm and then they see people who failed to take advantage of their circumstances and point to them as why they did it all by themselves.

I am in a really good job and I took a little bit of an unconventional path to get there but I could take some risks because my parents paid for university. A lot of people don't have that advantage and they should. I fell into a career that I would not have had access to if I needed something to start paying the bills right away. It really clicks with me and I have been able to go on a heck of a run with it compared to some of my colleagues but I started from second base.

I find it really annoying when successful start up/business founders say they did it all by themselves when really they had access to their parents network of connections/wealth and also knew they had a fallback plan in case they failed.
Pull yourself up by the bootstraps is the worst of it wrapped in a simple idiom.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Man, everyone works their ass off. Just some people work their ass off and they're still poor as ####.

Yeah, usually they are the ones who make the rich...well... more rich. But the well off would rather assume that they are at a higher tier and therefore are entitled to resources better than their underlings even though they are the ones who helped them make successful in the first place

[nik-]

When you get money you automatically want people with less money than you to be denied health care. It's science, and unavoidable.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by pylon

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days when they caught wind of this. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

I mean, if he's 75, then it likely wasn't private health care that got him treated so quickly, it was Medicare which is government funded. The difference is the US invests significantly more government money into health care than Canada does per capita (based on OECD data):

USA: $10,052
Canada: $4,402

Just to reiterate, that's solely government spending, excluding private insurance and out-of-pocket spending. So we could invest at much higher levels and have similar quality, but that would involve either significant tax increases or the willingness to fund it with huge deficits like the US does.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Why do people have to feel the need to put down other people's political opinion. I'll admit, I begrudgingly voted NDP for the first time ever, but just because I did, I'm not going to thrash other people for sticking with the UCP. They are voting for what they believe is right. This thread is like an NDP circle jerk, and anyone who doesn't agree gets shamed.

Where have you been, that is every topic on CP. If you are not on board with the most popular view you will get shamed and ridiculed. It is just a reflection of society and herd mentality.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Totally off topic, but if I was Scrooge McDuck rich, I too would want a giant vault of loose coins to swim in.

I'm pretty sure that having a giant vault of loose coins to swim in is a (the only?) necessary precondition to being "Scrooge McDuck rich".

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I’m pretty right wing fiscally. But I cannot wrap my head around the two tier thing.

If it actually took X numbers out of the QUE and DID NOT cannibalize the workforce or facilities I’d be ok with it. Butttt it would never work that way.

We already have a two tier system. Go to the US. Nothing stops that. Or is it too expensive there?

I have a f u cled aorta as well that will need a change out in the next few years. So maybe I change my mind.

It's slowly testing the waters to move some surgeries to private. Were not throwing healthcare away. Even Quebec is trying this. This kind of exists now. You can pay for a CT Scan $900 tomorrow or wait a year.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where have you been, that is every topic on CP. If you are not on board with the most popular view you will get shamed and ridiculed. It is just a reflection of society and herd mentality.

Alberta Votes 2023

You may go now.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where have you been, that is every topic on CP. If you are not on board with the most popular view you will get shamed and ridiculed. It is just a reflection of society and herd mentality.

Why do you constantly cry about this place and yet stay? Get a new hobby.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by nik-

When you get money you automatically want people with less money than you to be denied health care. It's science, and unavoidable.

I'm all for taxing poor people on a scale, the less total income the higher they get taxed.

[DoubleK]

Holy man did this thread take a turn.

Props to pylon for standing his ground.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I for one like the auction style health care.

Out bidding someone for a heart procedure and walking away with a smile ha should have worked harder sucker.

Adam Smith’s invisible hand at work… (digging a grave for competent society) lol

Too many people fail to understand or remember that the prerequisite for the invisible hand regulating an economy is the rational individual mind & thinking of the public.

What part of the Artur Pawlowski conspiracy theorist behaviours are in any way/shape or form rational?

Any power structure that openly engages with people like him and normalizes any of his behaviour is equivalent to letting rats loose in your house to eat all the cockroaches.

Things can & will only get worse.