[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by timun

It's safe to say that no matter what happens in this election, a huge chunk of the population will be deeply dissatisfied with the results.

If the UCP lose there will be a strong uptick in Alberta independence rhetoric from the freedom folk. Who exactly they want to separate from is an interesting question, but logic was never their string suit.

[Bonded]

What site had that riding by riding breakdown?

[DFO]

I think I’d rather see a bit of a provincial tax increase to fund healthcare reform rather than go down the road of insurance headaches and ridiculous co-pays. Or if we’re just gonna burn through our resource revenue maybe spend it on healthcare rather than corporate welfare.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A very few minutes of research would have told you this won't work, and it makes the public system worse. You have made a choice that will make my life worse. I've already waited 2 years for a referral(with a year to go!). If we had private care, that doctor(who also does private plastic surgery) would not be available to the public system at all, and the few doctors left would be even more stretched.


Your past choices of voting for a party that has managed to do what they have to healthcare, in, as you describe, a resource rich province, is open to critique. You are continuing to do the same, for the sake of lower business taxes(despite Notley campaigning on the lowest business taxes in Canada). I find this incredibly baffling as a priority, and maybe one day you'll get to experience what I have over the last 14. It has not been good, and because you are a part of that, I think it's fair enough to hold you to account on your vote for basing it on false premises.


I know Conservatives tend not to be compassionate about the suffering their choices leave on others, so I expect a lot of "I can make up my own mind" which, sure you can. But your choices affect everyone.

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days when they caught wind of this. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

[fotze2]

I can’t lose in this election. Either the side I chose wins or certain those on my side will be bitterly disappointed and I feel good about that. I win either way, and this is really what this whole experiment is about, me.

Can whoever loses be really angry about it, because all of us will enjoy it.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by pylon

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

This is what Albertans are chosing. FYGM. People who are poor? #### them they dont work hard enough. Gross

[zamler]

One person that will lose is my next door neighbour. They always have political signs on their lawn have not chosen the winner once in the 20 years I've been here.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Most people have worked very very hard to have what they do or don't have.

Having health care shouldn't be a privelage based on your bank account.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This is what Albertans are chosing. FYGM. People who are poor? #### them they dont work hard enough. Gross

Yet when the "capitalists" get into trouble and need help, they'll be the first ones to complain about lack of services, usually blame the other party, cut and get in front of the line.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Took him about five minutes to get there, but pylon got there. Also the whole "AHS caught wind of us checking things out in the Staes so quickly rushed him in" seems funny.

[dieHARDflameZ]

They should change this thread topic to NDP fan forum.

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by Bonded

What site had that riding by riding breakdown?

https://338canada.com/alberta/districts.htm

[White Out 403]

I dont want to #### on pylon too much. Like, he was brave enough to just out himself as someone who would want 2 tier health care. At least he isn't lying or not giving us a window in to the average UCP voter. it's a hard tight rope to cross for me. I applaud the honesty, but I find his views deeply abhorrent and anti Canadian

[topfiverecords]

If the rich want tiered healthcare then they should have no issue with an auction system instead of a first serve system. Scheduled spots to the highest bidder. Didn't get a spot? Should have worked harder.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'm happy to talk specifics.

Point 1. With respect to Bill 6. The bill was not poorly received because of it's intent but in the way that it was constructed and delivered. For one the Bill at first delivery did not have a nuanced understanding of how farms operate. Which leads to the most important criticism, which is that it was crafted without any formal, or informal consultation. The sensitivity around this is largely due to the fact that farms are not just livelihoods, but peoples homes. Farm safety of course is no small concern, you'd be hard pressed to find a family who have not felt the impact. rural schools, special interest groups and the like work hard to promote farm safety through education and support. The dissatisfaction with the bill again, was because the bill lacked clarity and nuance. Farmers are no strangers to having their work legislated. Indeed, there is a great deal more regulation and administration around paying employees. It was the confusion, and again lack of consultation surrounding unpaid workers that caused frustration. The political environment continues to lack nuance with efforts to reduce carbon by taxing beef production, this ignores a more nuanced understanding of the environment which works to balance carbon pollution, with biodiversity. Soy of course is less water and carbon intensive, but kills all the wild flowers. again these legislations create a great deal of anxiety because it is not just your lively hood but your home, and in the case of most farmers the home of your ancestors.

Point 2. Search the word rural in the Alberta politics forum and try quote one nice thing said. Maybe you've got a point that this is all about "feelies" but it ain't nice. Of course the NDP have not formally insulted my intelligence, but many of their volunteers ( according to the thread) have.

Point 3. I would prefer not to speak in specifics, as to give up my location and occupation. No less, our representative shows up to fundraisers and gives support. When I have needed help, they have shown up. It is in rural communities as much about the individual as the party, again this maybe different in cities.

Which leads to the point about epistemologies. These are frameworks of knowledge of which we apply information to. In short a world view. I have a different world view than you, and that it okay. It is because we live in different world. All the same there is common ground, as a socialist I work to find it with my neighbors everyday. Maybe we could do the same.

Thanks for the response. This is all my initial post meant, bring the receipts.

I can see their point, even if I disagree with it. With regards to the farmers, it seems to me that they protested the initial bill, and mostly from a lack of clarity and a propaganda push from the Wildrose, but the NDP took action accordingly, rectified the issue and promised to do better in the future.. I am still not understanding how this was all done in bad faith?

The problem with the intelligence insulting is there are so much variation in groups. I spent 4 years in the Alberta Government thread getting called the same stupid for agreeing with the NDP policies, hell I still get it today "only a moron would agree with that". So it's not really something the NDP or the supporters are doing in isolation.

I get number 3, but are the NDP candidates not part of the community? Do people not think they will also show up to events and fundraisers? And I think it is similar in the city, just the fact that it was Rachel herself that dropped off my lawn sign just was a good feeling of being represented. And I know in smaller communities that feeling is even more intense

Pylon made some good points earlier too. I don't agree with them, but I see them as active policy points where the UCP meets his needs. I don't doubt there are a lot of people voting UCP because they match their priorities. But the vast majority of responses I have seen or heard is "communism", "venezuala", "death to O&G", "free conversion therapy!", "Trudeau-Singh alliance" and regardless of the facts these things are just parroted and at the very least makes it seem like people don't care about facts and only want to give themselves the good feels for pwning the libs.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This is what Albertans are chosing. FYGM. People who are poor? #### them they dont work hard enough. Gross

The err in your thinking is the assumption I don't help others and I sit on some sort of pile of gold Scrooge McDuck style. Because that would be a very erroneous assumption.

Edit: I am going to add to this. My wife and I have spent 40k out of pocket helping people who couldn't otherwise afford private addiction treatment over the last 3 years and asked nothing in return besides "Stay clean.". I find it equally deplorable you would assume I want poor people to die.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Most people have worked very very hard to have what they do or don't have.

Having health care shouldn't be a privelage based on your bank account.

Almost everyone who has less money than me works way harder than I do. I get paid a six-figure salary to sit at a computer for 40 hours a week. A dude making minimum wage stocking grocery store shelves and a woman working as a hotel maid and the janitor in my office all work much, much, much harder than I ever have for a fraction of my compensation.

If there's two things in society where the wealthy absolutely should not get preferential treatment, it's healthcare and education. Everyone should have equal access to these essential services regardless of their ability to pay, and the public systems should be well-funded to the point that the rich don't even feel it's necessary to pay for "better" service because the universal public option meets their needs as well as the needs of those of a lesser socioeconomic status.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by pylon

The err in your thinking is the assumption I don't help others and I sit on some sort of pile of gold Scrooge McDuck style. Because that would be a very erroneous assumption.

I couldn't care less about your charitable work. No offense.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by pylon

The err in your thinking is the assumption I don't help others and I sit on some sort of pile of gold Scrooge McDuck style. Because that would be a very erroneous assumption.

Totally off topic, but if I was Scrooge McDuck rich, I too would want a giant vault of loose coins to swim in.

[nik-]

No one who's successful puts rep LMs from KalTire on their car.