Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Somebody sell me on an how an NDP party that is known for raising taxes, being anti-business and supporting defunding the police are going to make the cost of living more affordable for Albertans and tackle skyrocketing violent crime in the cities? Typical NDP policy seems to support these things getting worse quickly.
Have they talked policy? Done 180? Whats Notleys plan here? What am I missing?

Hey everyone.
I have a bunch of completely flawed premises.
Now explain to me why I should vote for the party I have assigned them to.

In truth the Provincial and Liberal Governments have done more to provide support for Alberta O&G than years of Conservative governments have done (Actually getting P/Ls built, and a very successful royalty review)

Why do you think the UCP would be so great at tackling the affordability crisis? Haven't they been running the show for the last few years? Are you going with they "The only people qualified to fix this problem are the ones who helped create it" school of thought?
I would ask the same question about violent crime. Why should we trust the UCP to fix a problem that they've presided over the rise of?
Because they have a bold new strategy of "Throw cops at the problem"?

Immediate enforcement will likely help, but all it does is move the problem over a few blocks. They have no plan for tackling the underlying issues (Addiction, affordable housing, etc).
That's what "Defund the police" is all about, moving money away from solving problems by sending guys with guns, and towards applying that money to send properly trained people to intervene, and to support programs that tackle the root cause.
Why should I vote for someone who instead of wanting to fix the problem by helping people get out of circumstances that cause the problem, just wants to lock people up?

The difference here is that the NDP have ideas to fix the underlying issue, whereas the UCP simply want to eliminate the symptom, and punish people.
One plan has the underlying premise that the best way to fix a problem is to help people. This has the added bonus of turning people who otherwise would be a drag on society into contributing members.
The other plan has the underlying premise that the best way to fix a problem is to punish people. This has the added bonus of costing everyone more money in the long run, but at least politicians get to act tough.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Step 2: Don't talk about energy saving lightbulbs. over and over and over again.

Which only cost $30m.

For comparison, the NDP could have ran the Light Bulb program almost 47 times to come close to the toilet flush of the UCP pipe gamble.

Lord knows at least some of us got light bulbs, some low flow shower heads and a few automated power bars out of it.

[Johnny Makarov]

The only good thing that will happen if the UCP win again, is that there will be no more doctors left in rural Alberta in the next 4 years.....which will mean less seniors to vote in the next election.

[Wormius]

Can you define what you mean by “skyrocketing violent crime”. Is this perception from watching the daily news or from real crime stats in YYC?

https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...Statistics.xls

From 2018 onwards it looks pretty uneventful in most categories. Even running a quick sum on each month in the “by category” sheet doesn’t indicate an overwhelming spike in violent crimes.

Maybe that list isn’t comprehensive, but not sure what else to go on.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Can you define what you mean by “skyrocketing violent crime”. Is this perception from watching the daily news or from real crime stats in YYC?

https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...Statistics.xls

From 2018 onwards it looks pretty uneventful in most categories. Even running a quick sum on each month in the “by category” sheet doesn’t indicate an overwhelming spike in violent crimes.

Maybe that list isn’t comprehensive, but not sure what else to go on.

Based on the CPS reports, there has been a 4.9% increase in Violent Crime in Absolute numbers in the last 5 years (as of Dec 2022) from 13,198 Violent Crimes in 2018 to 13,862 Violent Crimes in 2022.

If you work that out per-capita, Calgary's population increased from 1,311,699 in 2018 to 1,413,800 in 2022, so it's actually a decrease of -2.5% relative to population.

https://www.calgary.ca/cps/statistic...l-reports.html
https://regionaldashboard.alberta.ca...m=2018&to=2022

Like most Conservative claims, this is entirely based on vibes and feels and not grounded in statistical reality.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Step 1: Don't blow 1.4 billion dollars on a pipedream (heh)

1.4 billion seems like a reasonable price to pay for a pipeline. What’s the issue here? Oh wait…

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Somebody sell me on an how an NDP party that is known for raising taxes, being anti-business and supporting defunding the police are going to make the cost of living more affordable for Albertans and tackle skyrocketing violent crime in the cities? Typical NDP policy seems to support these things getting worse quickly.
Have they talked policy? Done 180? Whats Notleys plan here? What am I missing?

You are gonna have to show your work on this one. How has the NDP taxes made life less affordable for most Albertans? They raised taxes on people making over $130,000 a year, and corporations making profits over $500k. They reduced it for companies making less and left it alone for the majority of personal Albertans.

In comparison, the UCP has made my life much less affordable by removing caps on utilities and insurance providers, plus instituting more premiums and user fees such as the Kananaskis pass.

How have they been anti-business? They have gone forward with some environmental policies, like a carbon tax, that is very much becoming the norm around the world, gave incentives for green energy, film industry and tech industry. Plus they even got the Feds to get TMX going.

You obviously don't understand what defund the police means. It is focused on instead of using those funds for enforcement, using more funds for preventative measures. Having people trained to deescalate a situation or using trained counsellors in situations over bullets and arrests. And while crime is up, I think "skyrocketing" is fear mongering based on the actual data.

I don't see how typical NDP policy is making any of these things worse. In their 1 term then made some great strides at recovering from a recession that was out of anyone's hands. You can see the economic growth over the term.

If you want to bring up specific policies that the NDP did that negatively affected Albertans - and there were a few, no government is perfect - then I am sure there are lots of people to discuss. But otherwise this is just asking people to defend baseless stereo-types of the NDP.

[Muta]

I'm voting NDP because they are pro O+G, pro-pipeline, pro-business, pro diversification, pro healthcare, pro affordable housing, pro education, pro culture, pro environment and most of all, pro Alberta. They have an intelligent leader that approaches relations with other jurisdictions with partnership and dialogue, not confrontation. They inherited a completed mess from the PCs, as well as a bust cycle that was completely out of their ability to control. After some growing periods, their last two years in office were absolutely fine, and Alberta was going in the right direction. If you liked the Lougheed era, the ANDP are pretty much that - they are dead centre and have a plan. The era of calling them 'left wing socialists' is over, and has been for a while.

The UCP have been nothing but charlatans, grifters, have a terrible fiscal record and misrepresent many Albertans while saying they speak for all of us. I have no interest in confrontation with the rest of Canada, and yet the UCP seem to think that crying like a baby and stomping their feet will get things done. It doesn't.

I'm also still ear-steaming mad about the $1.4B failed pipeline bet, the $30M "War Room" that has done nothing but embarrass this province and provide no tangible results, the $20B Rstar program that misses an easy revenue opportunity and shows a weak-ass backbone, the instant multi-billion dollar tax break they gave to the same corporations in 2019, the $60M Tylenol boondoggle, and the 'both sides, many sides' #### they pulled during COVID. Most of all, they have completely damaged the healthcare system in this province, and most of the highlights they are now claiming are theirs were started by the NDP.

Is this what you were looking for?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Somebody sell me on an how an NDP party that is known for raising taxes, being anti-business and supporting defunding the police are going to make the cost of living more affordable for Albertans and tackle skyrocketing violent crime in the cities? Typical NDP policy seems to support these things getting worse quickly.
Have they talked policy? Done 180? Whats Notleys plan here? What am I missing?

They could start be re installing the cap on insurance rates that the UCP removed.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Somebody sell me on an how an NDP party that is known for raising taxes, being anti-business and supporting defunding the police are going to make the cost of living more affordable for Albertans and tackle skyrocketing violent crime in the cities? Typical NDP policy seems to support these things getting worse quickly.
Have they talked policy? Done 180? Whats Notleys plan here? What am I missing?

https://www.albertasfuture.ca/

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Can you define what you mean by “skyrocketing violent crime”. Is this perception from watching the daily news or from real crime stats in YYC?

https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...Statistics.xls

From 2018 onwards it looks pretty uneventful in most categories. Even running a quick sum on each month in the “by category” sheet doesn’t indicate an overwhelming spike in violent crimes.

Maybe that list isn’t comprehensive, but not sure what else to go on.

The dumbest thing is, even if we take him at face value and accept that crime is skyrocketing, it's happening under the UCP watch. Why the hell would you vote for the same idiots that caused your "problem" to get so bad in the first place?

[TheIronMaiden]

Tripple postscore.

Everything has become more expensive since the UCP took power.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

The dumbest thing is, even if we take him at face value and accept that crime is skyrocketing, it's happening under the UCP watch. Why the hell would you vote for the same idiots that caused your "problem" to get so bad in the first place?

That's the crazy thing. We have all these things that have gotten worse, some, like healthcare, to critical levels. Ye the same party that has allowed it to get this bad for decades are the ones to fix it? Same with parks, they went and broke it, then claimed there was no money to fix it, then put in user fees, and now suddenly there is all this money to fix parks. How could anyone be suckered into believing this time they'll get things right? People are so dumb. I'm beginning to dislike them.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm voting NDP because they are pro O+G, pro-pipeline, pro-business, pro diversification, pro healthcare, pro affordable housing, pro education, pro culture, pro environment and most of all, pro Alberta. They have an intelligent leader that approaches relations with other jurisdictions with partnership and dialogue, not confrontation. They inherited a completed mess from the PCs, as well as a bust cycle that was completely out of their ability to control. After some growing periods, their last two years in office were absolutely fine, and Alberta was going in the right direction. If you liked the Lougheed era, the ANDP are pretty much that - they are dead centre and have a plan. The era of calling them 'left wing socialists' is over, and has been for a while.

The UCP have been nothing but charlatans, grifters, have a terrible fiscal record and misrepresent many Albertans while saying they speak for all of us. I have no interest in confrontation with the rest of Canada, and yet the UCP seem to think that crying like a baby and stomping their feet will get things done. It doesn't.

I'm also still ear-steaming mad about the $1.4B failed pipeline bet, the $30M "War Room" that has done nothing but embarrass this province and provide no tangible results, the $20B Rstar program that misses an easy revenue opportunity and shows a weak-ass backbone, the instant multi-billion dollar tax break they gave to the same corporations in 2019, the $60M Tylenol boondoggle, and the 'both sides, many sides' #### they pulled during COVID. Most of all, they have completely damaged the healthcare system in this province, and most of the highlights they are now claiming are theirs were started by the NDP.

Is this what you were looking for?

“And I will completely forget the last time she ran the Province into the ground”

Pro oil and gas just will do little to nothing when it gets shut down by her Federal handlers and follow in lock step with Just Transition.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

“And I will completely forget the last time she ran the Province into the ground”

Pro oil and gas just will do little to nothing when it gets shut down by her Federal handlers and follow in lock step with Just Transition.

You are so misinformed, it's insane.

[Ozy_Flame]

Who the hell is Notley's handlers at the federal level?

Was Horgan "handled" by federal handlers?

Justin? Jagmeet? Jack Layton?? TOMMY DOUGLAS?????

The gaslighting is as bad as a midnight Waiparous bonfire.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Yoho

“And I will completely forget the last time she ran the Province into the ground”

Pro oil and gas just will do little to nothing when it gets shut down by her Federal handlers and follow in lock step with Just Transition.

I know I'm just feeding the troll here, and you've been asked multiple times with no reply, but please qualify your statement with any proof or examples of “And I will completely forget the last time she ran the Province into the ground”

I can wait...

[puffnstuff]

I cant embed tweets here...whatever, dont judge me...

But theres a video of ds talking about the power point presentation she got from the justice ministry explaining how it works, thats its different than the US system and it was prepared for her after they heard the positions/claims she made while running.

Seriously

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by aaronck

I know I'm just feeding the troll here, and you've been asked multiple times with no reply, but please qualify your statement with any proof or examples of “And I will completely forget the last time she ran the Province into the ground”

I can wait...

Don’t quote the Troll

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I cant embed tweets here...whatever, dont judge me...

But theres a video of ds talking about the power point presentation she got from the justice ministry explaining how it works, thats its different than the US system and it was prepared for her after they heard the positions/claims she made while running.

Seriously

I love how she always says "some people had the impression I had the power to pardon." Dude, the "some people" is you. No one else. Stop trying to pretend like you weren't the only one this clueless. God, she's such a moron.