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[you&me]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You’re forgetting back of house , hostest, bartender , etc

If tips are currently 15% of bills and you want to keep the same level of total compensation , prices have to raise the exact same amount and all that extra revenue goes directly to the same people it was before

I guess the point I was making was the server tipping out a portion of their 15% tips to the rest of the staff is still, on average, making well above living wage... Do we want to maintain the same level of compensation, or do we want to level the compensation?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by you&me

I guess the point I was making was the server tipping out a portion of their 15% tips to the rest of the staff is still, on average, making well above living wage... Do we want to maintain the same level of compensation, or do we want to level the compensation?

I edited my response a bit

But why do we want the staff making less money ? It’s one of the few jobs that allows unskilled women and younger people to make a good wage and support a family . (Men historically get labor jobs in the same situations)

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The most ironic part is usually the people who hate tipping correlate to lower tippers (self proclaimed in the thread) , then ask for the staff to be paid a higher wage and just eliminating tipping .

Which will just see all menu prices raise 15-20% to cover the extra salaries , meaning the lower tippers actually pay more , and the good tippers will pay less and actually come out better financially, however with most likely worst service which will annoy them also, so both sides will end up annoyed. And/or the restaurants will claim prices are up to pay servers , and pocket more profit while sticking it to the employees.

Unless the proposal is the ensure all employees in service industries make less overall , which seems weird for one of the few industries unskilled (relatively) and younger workers can make good money

You will get better service without tipping

Tipping incentivizes two things increasing bill total and throughput. Since you don’t know who is a good tipper it’s not worth being extra nice or spending extra attention on anyone. Actual service level has very little to do with how much tip you get.

The quality of service is due to training and hiring practice and management styles.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

You will get better service without tipping

Tipping incentivizes two things increasing bill total and throughput. Since you don’t know who is a good tipper it’s not worth being extra nice or spending extra attention on anyone. Actual service level has very little to do with how much tip you get.

The quality of service is due to training and hiring practice and management styles.

I think that's an assumption that can be challenged. In Europe with not tipping the service is ####e at a lot of places. Maybe it's culture? I hear Australia doesn't have tipping, how is the service there?

[wwkayaker]

What kind of animal writes a thread title without any capitalization? Not sure why it bugs but is just looks odd.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think that's an assumption that can be challenged. In Europe with not tipping the service is ####e at a lot of places. Maybe it's culture? I hear Australia doesn't have tipping, how is the service there?

That’s certainly an interesting question. I didn’t notice poor service in France when I was their pre-pandemic. Then again I’ve never had bad service at any restaurant so perhaps my standards are too low.

I think your point while fair is impossible to disentangle from culture. Did tipping culture drive better service culture? Would getting rid of tipping change that culture now that whatever exists already exists? Who knows

I think one question I would have is do you get better or worse service at places within Canada where a tip is expected versus one where a tip isn’t. I’d say service at the food court versus a restaurant in terms of politeness and quality is roughly similar within the scopes of each job. There isn’t a plague of terrible food court workers. Even the people who clear garbage and sort it for you are very friendly.

One thing I do notice is that servers are whiter, younger and more attractive.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GGG

You will get better service without tipping

Tipping incentivizes two things increasing bill total and throughput. Since you don’t know who is a good tipper it’s not worth being extra nice or spending extra attention on anyone. Actual service level has very little to do with how much tip you get.

The quality of service is due to training and hiring practice and management styles.

That makes no sense . At best you would get the same level of service ….

If there is zero incentive to give “great” service , because of fixed wages , you believe the service level would go up??

And prioritizing throughout is exactly what a patron should want . When my drink is close to empty I get asked if I want another.

I go to Europe for business almost monthly , and I can tell you how often you are sitting with an empty drink or waiting for a good order while servers are chatting in the corner

In fact , tipping in Europe is gaining more traction and I have seen places that have tipping the service is exponentially better

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think one question I would have is do you get better or worse service at places within Canada where a tip is expected versus one where a tip isn’t. I’d say service at the food court versus a restaurant in terms of politeness and quality is roughly similar within the scopes of each job. There isn’t a plague of terrible food court workers. Even the people who clear garbage and sort it for you are very friendly.

One thing I do notice is that servers are whiter, younger and more attractive.

Food courts are usually staffed by immigrants who seem to work their butts off either way . And yes - I tip these now when offered the opportunity and believe they all deserved to be tipped

I honestly question if people have ever been to a all inclusive resort , bar, been a regular at a restaurant , cafe or bar , or know anyone in the service industry. You 100% get better and preferred service by tipping and tipping well

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Weirdly I would actually get a kick out of that, and then might tip them for being funny.

Haha definitely, now that I'd pay for

[RichieRich]

Tipping in Japan is considered an insult.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think that's an assumption that can be challenged. In Europe with not tipping the service is ####e at a lot of places. Maybe it's culture? I hear Australia doesn't have tipping, how is the service there?

Awful.

No tips just ensures average to below average service. At least with tipping you can hope for good service. Though it’s hard to find anywhere these days.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Tipping in Japan is considered an insult.

Outside of Pearl Harbor and brief streak of craziness there, is there anything Japan gets wrong? Just a wicked culture that has so many admirable qualities. Those people are amazing.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Tipping in Japan is considered an insult.

Yeah, well, thats just, like, their opinion man.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Outside of Pearl Harbor and brief streak of craziness there, is there anything Japan gets wrong? Just a wicked culture that has so many admirable qualities. Those people are amazing.

Lots of things. Lots and lots of things.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The most ironic part is usually the people who hate tipping correlate to lower tippers (self proclaimed in the thread) , then ask for the staff to be paid a higher wage and just eliminating tipping .

Which will just see all menu prices raise 15-20% to cover the extra salaries , meaning the lower tippers actually pay more , and the good tippers will pay less and actually come out better financially, however with most likely worst service which will annoy them also, so both sides will end up annoyed. And/or the restaurants will claim prices are up to pay servers , and pocket more profit while sticking it to the employees.

Unless the proposal is the ensure all employees in service industries make less overall , which seems weird for one of the few industries unskilled (relatively) and younger workers can make good money

I'm the sucker who tips well everywhere prompted out of some weird social pressure. I'd be way better off financially if tipping was eliminated and prices rose, because I tip above average, effectively subsidizing people who are crappy tippers.

I'd also prefer it from a social point of view. I find tipping uncomfortable as it creates a weird social hierarchy that I don't like. I also think it would be better for people to have stable incomes vs having them vary with tips.

I don't think it will ever be eliminated but wish it would.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by RichieRich

Tipping in Japan is considered an insult.

Don’t need to tip a vending machine.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Don’t need to tip a vending machine.

How else do you get the food without paying for it?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Locke

How else do you get the food without paying for it?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Outside of Pearl Harbor and brief streak of craziness there, is there anything Japan gets wrong? Just a wicked culture that has so many admirable qualities. Those people are amazing.

One of the highest suicide rates in the world, dystopian work culture, aging population with low birth rates, high levels of misogyny and overt racism. But yea, they're tidy and don't tip

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Outside of Pearl Harbor and brief streak of craziness there, is there anything Japan gets wrong? Just a wicked culture that has so many admirable qualities. Those people are amazing.

There was the whole invasion of China and Korea thing where they raped and pillaged. But they're amazing.