[PGT] Flames 4 - Blues 1. Duehr’s 1st NHL Goal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Lindholm is so pretty. And Hanifin, Coleman, Andersson, Vladar, even Tanev in a way. Zadorov is awesome, so whoever said that can choose someone else to pick on!

Maybe the are overestimating the loss of Gudbranson.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lots of comments about the Flames playing better in front of Vladar.

Pulled the stats, but then it occurred to me you can interpret all of these two ways.

All situations ...

Markstrom
Flames score 2.84/60
Give up 2.77/60

Generate 3.25/60
Generated against 2.72/60

Vladar
Flames score 3.42/60
Give up 2.73/60

Generate 3.14/60
Generated against 2.92/60

So what do you make of that?

They technically play better in front of Markstrom in terms of chances for and against and the resulting expected goals.

But they give Vladar more run support so he gets more wins.

Actually goalie performance has Vladar up but it's razor tight.

So if you like Markstrom you say he's not getting the run support. If you like Vladar you say they score more for him because they feel more comfortable.

Spin is available both ways.

I see close to 1 goal per game difference in "puck luck" between the two (Marky .36 against him and Vladar .48 for him)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by sonq

I simply responded to him saying that PGTs after a win doesn't have discussion. What does comments like "Huberdeau is a bum, Mangiapane is ####, Markström is ####, Sutter doesn't know how to coach, we are ####, I don't care about this team, this is a bad team" bring to the table either? His comment had good points about the game and how this team is performing. The part about 'discussion' is what I found funny and ironic

Lanny is confusing the fact that nobody likes having a conversation with him with the idea that people don’t like having discussions in general. Best to ignore the weird little rants as most people do. You’re pretty much spot on, though, neither version of a PGT is really geared towards discussion, one just contains more outrage and venting and that’s the one that is naturally going to be busier.

I’ll take the W and less to read on CP than an L and 40 pages of complaining with half a dozen people bumping year-old threads with an “lol.” I thought it was a good game, not spectacular but it didn’t have to be. Ain’t much else to say about it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by beaster

Vancouver benched him in the 2nd round and put in Demko, then let him go in the off season...

No, they did not. Markstrom was injured in the playoffs, which is the only reason Demko played, and the GM nickle-and-dimed him hlin the offseason. It is one of many reasons why Dim Jim was eventually fired.


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[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lots of comments about the Flames playing better in front of Vladar.

Pulled the stats, but then it occurred to me you can interpret all of these two ways.

All situations ...

Markstrom
Flames score 2.84/60
Give up 2.77/60

Generate 3.25/60
Generated against 2.72/60

Vladar
Flames score 3.42/60
Give up 2.73/60

Generate 3.14/60
Generated against 2.92/60

So what do you make of that?

They technically play better in front of Markstrom in terms of chances for and against and the resulting expected goals.

But they give Vladar more run support so he gets more wins.

Actually goalie performance has Vladar up but it's razor tight.

So if you like Markstrom you say he's not getting the run support. If you like Vladar you say they score more for him because they feel more comfortable.

Spin is available both ways.

How about the players just get dejected with Markstrom after a soft goal or letting something in 2 mins into a game.

and it happens so often they just expect the worst.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Two posters are bellyaching about Markstrom and Reggie Dunlop is making inane posts which add nothing to the conversation, and that only they laugh at. That happens every day.



CP is not miserable. It was a great win, Go Flames Go!

Not true. I, too, laugh at Reggie's inane posts.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Vladar has earned some consecutive starts. At a bare minimum at least until he loses a game. I like Markstrom and he will figure it out but Vladar in net at this time gives the team the best chance to win a game and that is all that matters.

[Toonage]

Yep. I don't care how good Markstrom was in the playoffs against Dallas. That was a lifetime ago at this point. Start Vladar tomorrow.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

How about the players just get dejected with Markstrom after a soft goal or letting something in 2 mins into a game.

and it happens so often they just expect the worst.

They need to be more mentally strong than that.
Do they similar get dejected and give up if a guy has a bad give away that leads to a goal.
Or if a guy takes a bad penalty that results in a goal?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

...Would also like to see Mangiapane see a few games in the press box. Watching him play is like watching a Seinfeld re-run. Nothing happens and half the time you're left cringing or shaking your head. He needs some time to watch the game and some film from the start of last year to see what made him successful. They need that player back ASAP.

What a weird take after last night's game. On the contrary, I think Mangiapane is finally turning a corner, and it looks like he is just about to pop.

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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They need to be more mentally strong than that.
Do they similar get dejected and give up if a guy has a bad give away that leads to a goal.
Or if a guy takes a bad penalty that results in a goal?

That's a tough ask. Hockey is a game of momentum, and your goalie letting in a pure softy is deflating. The fact that the Flames have any wins from earlier in the season when Marky was being given all the games reflects positively on the group in my eyes.

You just shouldn't win very many hockey games when your goaltender (particularly your starting goaltender) is pumping out an .893 save percentage. The Flames players have been pushing a boulder up a mountain side when Markstrom has been in net this season, and they've done an admirable job.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lots of comments about the Flames playing better in front of Vladar.

Pulled the stats, but then it occurred to me you can interpret all of these two ways.

All situations ...

Markstrom
Flames score 2.84/60
Give up 2.77/60

Generate 3.25/60
Generated against 2.72/60

Vladar
Flames score 3.42/60
Give up 2.73/60

Generate 3.14/60
Generated against 2.92/60

So what do you make of that?

They technically play better in front of Markstrom in terms of chances for and against and the resulting expected goals.

But they give Vladar more run support so he gets more wins.

Actually goalie performance has Vladar up but it's razor tight.

So if you like Markstrom you say he's not getting the run support. If you like Vladar you say they score more for him because they feel more comfortable.

Spin is available both ways.

I have another take. The bolded tells me that Vladar makes some big saves where he shouldn't have been able to which gives the team confidence to attack more and take an extra risk now and then.

With Markstrom's numbers you can say that either he's letting in exactly the goals he should and no extra saves, but we all watch him play and I would argue that he may make an extra big save or two, but then let's in some soft or unforgivable goals that deflate the team and force them to focus on their end more, taking fewer risks.

Hockey is a dynamic game, and all these factors are correlated to each other in a careful balance.

Playing better in front of Vladar is a function of his play, and isn't just random.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That's a tough ask. Hockey is a game of momentum, and your goalie letting in a pure softy is deflating. The fact that the Flames have any wins from earlier in the season when Marky was being given all the games reflects positively on the group in my eyes.

You just shouldn't win very many hockey games when your goaltender (particularly your starting goaltender) is pumping out an .893 save percentage. The Flames players have been pushing a boulder up a mountain side when Markstrom has been in net this season, and they've done an admirable job.

Right ... but keep in mind we are talking about goalie #26 (Markstrom) and goalie #30 (Vladar) in the GSAA rank on moneypuck.

This isn't brick wall vs spaghetti sieve

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I have another take. The bolded tells me that Vladar makes some big saves where he shouldn't have been able to which gives the team confidence to attack more and take an extra risk now and then.

With Markstrom's numbers you can say that either he's letting in exactly the goals he should and no extra saves, but we all watch him play and I would argue that he may make an extra big save or two, but then let's in some soft or unforgivable goals that deflate the team and force them to focus on their end more, taking fewer risks.

Hockey is a dynamic game, and all these factors are correlated to each other in a careful balance.

Playing better in front of Vladar is a function of his play, and isn't just random.

Hence my comment that you can spin it both ways.

They give up less when Markstrom is in net, so they are technically playing better in front of Markstrom.

But Vladar has a better overall metric in this data and more goal support so maybe they trust him more and can open up?

You can literally see what you want to see.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hence my comment that you can spin it both ways.

They give up less when Markstrom is in net, so they are technically playing better in front of Markstrom.

But Vladar has a better overall metric in this data and more goal support so maybe they trust him more and can open up?

You can literally see what you want to see.

LOL, I thought you didn't operate that way?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by beaster

Vancouver benched him in the 2nd round and put in Demko, then let him go in the off season Yes I watched him beat the last wildcard team, (Dallas) and completely fall apart against Edmonton

I am pretty sure Markstrom got injured... he was Vancouver's best player in those playoffs.

[Toonage]

^ Correct, he hurt himself on a crazy save as I recall

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They need to be more mentally strong than that.
Do they similar get dejected and give up if a guy has a bad give away that leads to a goal.
Or if a guy takes a bad penalty that results in a goal?

The problem is, Markstrom letting in a softie is more consistent and predictable than any other individual players coughing the puck up at the blue line or a very stupid offensive zone penalty.

Also the outlook is worse because it's a definite goal against vs a possible goal against in the other 2 situations where you at least have a chance at a save still or for the defence to clear the puck.

You need your goalies to make the obvious saves - the shots classified as low and medium danger. Dumb forward/defenceman play notwithstanding... because the latter is going to happen eventually, there are very few hockey games where your skaters are perfect defensively. But all those low and most of the medium danger changes need to be saved.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Vladarth was amazing again. So many quality and timely saves. This guy has to start stealing some starts from marky. The team plays better in front of him pretty obviously. That find on hockeys future about the bruins fans comments on his acquisition are stellar and to the point.

He’s big and athletic. It’s nice to see a good Czech goalie in the league. Dominator is probably smiling back in Prague.

That’s a big Texas sized 10-4 Brad with that acquisition. That’s why trophies like the Jennings trophy exist. It’s for tandems. Thank god for tandems or this season would be bleak… more bleak.

The flames took care of a nearly ahl squad. It was weird to see our dzone coverage give so many chances to guys like leivo and pitlick and other PC brand hockey players. But vladar made the stops and didn’t cough up ghastly rebounds. Solid win and move on with a team looking to steal our lunch with their 3 nhl forwards 4 if you count neighbors and 2 dmen.

It was good to get griess to come back down to reality vs us and keep his ego in check after his last win vs us.


Other notable performances were dube. He’s really playing with more edge and speed this year. Good to see him be rewarded with the ENG. the GWG was such an absolute snipe. I have heard people on the team laud his shot power and prowess. He could go a long way towards soothing the mangiapane lull with a break out of his own. He’s got a ways to go get towards 35 but he could really make himself a lot of money if he starts playing like this consistently: more speed and tenacity.

Zadorov looked good again in the offensive zone with his reach keeping pucks alive and his quicker than assumed hand speed for the timely stick handling to keep plays alive in the offensive zone.

Sadly we lost the TOP batte again to a team with 4 NHL forwards But they got the win.

Backlund Coleman and mangiapane line is our best line right meow. They are hard on the forecheck and responsible defensively.

I was watching the panthers game last night and tachuck is really good on the pp. the way he one touch passes to the slot from behind the net made me pine for that type of approach. Why cant we try Huberdeau like that behind the net and kadri on the right half wall with lindy at the bumper spot ? Our pp needs some new approach for us to really start being a complete team. 5v 5 looks better but seeemingly only looks better when vladar is in net and our pk is quite good considering how often we deploy it.

Walker Texas duher is amazing as a fourth line guy. He’s physical and skates with good size. Plus he has a decent nose for the net. Congrats man n his first and the first South Dakotan to score in the show. Him Lewis and Rosie is a potentially good fourth line as any in this league. I have been impressed with WTD(walker texas duher)as of his first Rookie camp. Finally we may have a replacement for a massive loss in Garnett Hathaway(home grown legit 4th line banger).

Lewis is a very good and responsible player. We are lucky he chose to re up here. He’s a valuable guy in that contract.

Weegar looks more intense which is nice but his offence could improve any day. I don’t think the Tanev and weegar pairing is that valuable. oK returning gives this team a better too pairing transition wise and potentially gets Anderson off the top Pp.

Good game. Start the car and onward and upward.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Right ... but keep in mind we are talking about goalie #26 (Markstrom) and goalie #30 (Vladar) in the GSAA rank on moneypuck.

This isn't brick wall vs spaghetti sieve

With all due respect, the moneypuck model isn’t passing the smell test

Natural stat trick shows Vladar with +1.89 GSAA and Markstrom with -9.25 GSAA in all situations (or 1.69 and -9.23 at 5v5)

Don’t those seem to better reflect what we all have been watching all year?