[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Buff]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Huberdeau is feeling very Drury-esque. Unfortunately I dont see him being here too long given the way he was moved here from Florida. Hope im wrong though

That is indeed a concern but that was based on one tweet saying he didn't like how Florida handled the situation. Does the hard feelings end at Florida's actions or is Calgary not where he wanted to go? Hard to say but we'll probably get a sense of his feelings and attitude early on.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, they will be a better team if the extend those two. Huberdeau > Gaudreau. Weegar >>> Gudbranson. They lose Tkachuk but I think that loss may be made up by (a) the defensive improvement which is significant and (b) players stepping up and (c) another acquisition, maybe down the middle.

As for TDL, obviously they aren’t getting a Huberdeau equivalent back. At that point it’s based on the future. But isn’t that what a lot of people, including you, think they should do right now?

They should either trade them now or go into the season with both guys re-signed, I don't see them selling at the deadline if they're in a playoff spot.

What comes to being better team than last year, I disagree, I don't think Huberdeau is better that Gaudreau, it's a wash. And I view Tkachuck more valuable than Weegar but even if you see that as a wash, overall I don't think the needle has moved much.

But one good thing for Calgary is that both Huberdeau and Weegar are playing for that big UFA deal still so if they do stick and start the season without a new deal, they'll absolutely give their best to maximize their value. Unlike Tkachuck who's production will likely drop now that he got his deal.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, they will be a better team if the extend those two. Huberdeau > Gaudreau. Weegar >>> Gudbranson. They lose Tkachuk but I think that loss may be made up by (a) the defensive improvement which is significant and (b) players stepping up and (c) another acquisition, maybe down the middle.

Huberdeau is a better player than Gaudreau, but not by much. Weegar is a very different player than Gudbranson, so it is hard to compare the two. Weegar is more like Brodie, and we know how the team was defensively when Brodie was here - subject to brain farts. Gudbranson is a big rough and tumble player that scared the hell out of the opposition, Weegar will not replace that aspect of the game. Weegar will greatly improve the offense and ability to move the puck out of the zone compared to Gudbranson, but we really didn't have that problem last season. What is missing is another 100+ scorer from last season. Nothing in this deal makes up for that, so yes, the Flames will have to be better defensively. Is defense Weegar's strength? Not sure about that.

As for TDL, obviously they aren’t getting a Huberdeau equivalent back. At that point it’s based on the future. But isn’t that what a lot of people, including you, think they should do right now?

That's just it, you aren't trading for equivalent in futures. If you want equivalent in futures you make those deals at the draft when you know what you are getting. Trading at the deadline is bargain bin hunting. You get picks later in the 1st round or after the first round. You don't get quality assets, you get quantity of assets. You don't trade top grade talent at the trade deadline because teams are unlikely to give up those players for a few weeks of a player. Thinking we can wait this out to the deadline to make a deal that is better or equitable to what we could get right now is foolhardy. The history of the trade deadline just doesn't support it being the way to grab quality assets.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, they will be a better team if the extend those two. Huberdeau > Gaudreau. Weegar >>> Gudbranson. They lose Tkachuk but I think that loss may be made up by (a) the defensive improvement which is significant and (b) players stepping up and (c) another acquisition, maybe down the middle.

As for TDL, obviously they aren’t getting a Huberdeau equivalent back. At that point it’s based on the future. But isn’t that what a lot of people, including you, think they should do right now?

Gaudreau and Tkachuk had a career year. Huberdeau is not going to get anywhere close to replacing that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Huberdeau is a better player than Gaudreau, but not by much. Weegar is a very different player than Gudbranson, so it is hard to compare the two. Weegar is more like Brodie, and we know how the team was defensively when Brodie was here - subject to brain farts. Gudbranson is a big rough and tumble player that scared the hell out of the opposition, Weegar will not replace that aspect of the game. Weegar will greatly improve the offense and ability to move the puck out of the zone compared to Gudbranson, but we really didn't have that problem last season. What is missing is another 100+ scorer from last season. Nothing in this deal makes up for that, so yes, the Flames will have to be better defensively. Is defense Weegar's strength? Not sure about that.

The notion Gudbranson (a Sept. 2021 pickup because he was still unsigned) is just “different” from a top pairing Dman like Weegar is silly. And yes, the Flames lost Tkachuk as well, but the stronger defence, more from other players down the line (eg Toffoli) can make up for it. Remember Tkachuk’s 100 points overlapped with Gaudreau’s - it’s not simple subtraction.

And if production is an issue, yes another puck mover is definitely an asset.

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Gaudreau and Tkachuk had a career year. Huberdeau is not going to get anywhere close to replacing that.

It’s called a career year for a reason. Huberdeau also had a banner year but moreover, he’s a better and more consistent player than either of those guys.

Bottom line - those guys are gone. And they would have been no matter what the return was.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Gaudreau and Tkachuk had a career year. Huberdeau is not going to get anywhere close to replacing that.

I could care less about personal stats. I only care that the Flames punch a ticket to the playoffs.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Not a trumpster/anti-vaxxer/flat-earther or anything like that, just... I dunno.

Oh... you must mean "anti-therapeutic" as the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Ontario) Dr. Kieran Moore just admitted that the COVID vaccine is a therapeutic since it doesn't stop the spread.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Oh... you must mean "anti-therapeutic" as the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Ontario) Dr. Kieran Moore just admitted that the COVID vaccine is a therapeutic since it doesn't stop the spread.

Good contribution.

[Sec214]

Covid19/ Politics in any thread not in the correct place should be a Suspension.

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedummmmmmmmmmmmmmb!

[Electricprez]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Oh... you must mean "anti-therapeutic" as the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Ontario) Dr. Kieran Moore just admitted that the COVID vaccine is a therapeutic since it doesn't stop the spread.

Dear lord please don't take this thread back to this pointless drivel.

Nobody is here to excitedly discuss COVID. There are thousands upon thousands of YouTube comment sections for this if you need to scratch the itch.

[TheIronMaiden]

I agree Politics in a hockey thread should be an insta ban.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Oh... you must mean "anti-therapeutic" as the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Ontario) Dr. Kieran Moore just admitted that the COVID vaccine is a therapeutic since it doesn't stop the spread.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Oh... you must mean "anti-therapeutic" as the Chief Medical Officer of Health (Ontario) Dr. Kieran Moore just admitted that the COVID vaccine is a therapeutic since it doesn't stop the spread.

Imagine still, in July 2022, having nothing better to talk about. Embarrassing.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Oi.

Back on topic (sort of).

I give Tkachuk lots of credit for providing more than 1 team to deal with (lol at the St. Louis offer), but it was to his advantage to be open to other teams in order to maximize his salary and go to a competitive team.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by devo22

based on Chiarot last year, Weegar probably gets you a 1st and an A prospect. Huberdeau, I struggle to think of a comparable forward who was available at the TDL in the last few years. But a king's ransom surely.

Giroux? Even with a 1 team list he got a good haul...though maybe that's the Zito factor.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It is unlikely you're going to get a king's ransom at the deadline for anyone. Blue chip prospects are rarely traded at the deadline. Deadline deals are mostly centered around draft picks and middling prospects or may fill a more pressing need, or there to balance out contracts. Chiarot was traded for a couple picks and Ty Smilanic, who falls somewhere in the 8-10 range for Panther's prospects prior to this last draft, and the Panthers prospect pool is lower third of the league. When was the last time a blue chip prospect was moved at the deadline? I think you have to go back to the trade of Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg. That required the team with the established player to kick in the extra player. Unless you're looking for 1st round picks, and are okay with late first round picks, the trade deadline is not a great time to go hunting for blue chip talent.

I agree with the premise that TDL deals rarely yield grade A assets that directly turn into impact players...but you'd have to dig a lot deeper to see how those assets might have actually changed a team's fortunes...either via a trade chain, or perhaps even having Pick X let a team trade Pick Y that turned into an impact player.

Rick Nash to BOS got a massive haul at TDL 2018:

Ryan Lindgren - full time player for 4 years; played 20mins a night this year
Ryan Spooner --> Ryan Strome (lol)
2018 1st - ended up 26OA. NYR paired it with pick 48OA* to trade up to 22 and pick K'Andre Miller. *NYR sold Grabner to NJD at the TDL for their 2nd...which ended up 48OA.

So from two TDL deals, NYR got their 2D, 4D, and 2C that now helped them to the ECF.

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

I wonder if the next Forsberg-Erat type trade could occur with the Wild and Rossi. The Wild will be entering this season with the hopes of competing despite having a 38 year old as their starter, a 33 year old captain and arguably their most important player behind Kaprizov, Zuccarello, being 35 when they enter the playoffs.

They were just forced to give up on a nice young player because of their cap situation thanks to the Suter and Parise buyouts, but there's still three years on those. Are they just resigned to the fact they won't compete until 2025-2026 season? But then why sign a 37 year old starter? Why trade a 25 year old instead of the older players?

Answer to the bolded may be that there was simply no market for a Zuccarello despite his fantastic numbers (see Bjorkstrand). And/or they wanted to avoid making two wingers their highest paid players for years to come.

MIN is in a super funny spot...while their results have been really impressive, their roster has never screamed contender. No 1C (Eriksson Ek is a really nice 2C), no true 1D (though Brodin-Spurgeon are both really good) and no great G.

I think the plan would be to maintain a winning culture and continue to compete, but the dead cap is a bit of a forced savings plan for when guys like Boldy and Rossi are hopefully due big raises.

It'll be interesting to see what they do at TDLs with Dumba this year and Zuc next year.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Oi.

Back on topic (sort of).

I give Tkachuk lots of credit for providing more than 1 team to deal with (lol at the St. Louis offer), but it was to his advantage to be open to other teams in order to maximize his salary and go to a competitive team.

Totally agree. Given he wanted out (which is too bad) I like the way he handled it, I think it was good. But to your point, and I don't mean it critically, it wasn't completely selfless.

He wanted that 8th year, at good dollar. So he needed the sign and trade. He knew if he completely handcuffed BT and the Flames (i.e. low ball from St. Louis being the only option), that could walk the Flames into signing is 1 year RFA offer and try again later. He was collaborating, but that was also in his best interest in regards to getting the dollars and a team he'd be happy with.

[BeltlineFan]

Analytics guru JFresh did a poll of his Twitter followers to rank NHL Defencemen. Weegar came in 20th ending up between John Carlson and Jakob Chychrun.

Andersson, Hanifin and Tanev ended up 39th, 40th and 42nd, respectively.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1551582741417889793

[Scroopy Noopers]

Byram at 31 is all you need to see to remember that this was a fan vote. Basically a popularity contest. And Seider being top 10. He’s really good but come on.

[TheIronMaiden]

No less, Nurse at 26 is a bit of a stretch.

[BeltlineFan]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Byram at 31 is all you need to see to remember that this was a fan vote. Basically a popularity contest. And Seider being top 10. He’s really good but come on.

Definitely. Things like this are always going to be skewed by draft position/recency bias/size of contract. Seider at 9, Hughes at 10, Nurse at 26 all pretty questionable.