[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So if guys like that are available what do they get?

The original question was what if they keep Tkachuk until the TDL

At TDL, contending teams will not make guys like Huberdeau and Weegar available. They need them.
Lottery teams may but they wouldn’t want to pay for a rental at that time. And they have no urgency to make any deal. And you are not going to get their draft picks. And good luck getting Tkachuk to extend with lottery team

[Lanny_McDonald]

It is unlikely you're going to get a king's ransom at the deadline for anyone. Blue chip prospects are rarely traded at the deadline. Deadline deals are mostly centered around draft picks and middling prospects or may fill a more pressing need, or there to balance out contracts. Chiarot was traded for a couple picks and Ty Smilanic, who falls somewhere in the 8-10 range for Panther's prospects prior to this last draft, and the Panthers prospect pool is lower third of the league. When was the last time a blue chip prospect was moved at the deadline? I think you have to go back to the trade of Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg. That required the team with the established player to kick in the extra player. Unless you're looking for 1st round picks, and are okay with late first round picks, the trade deadline is not a great time to go hunting for blue chip talent.

[edslunch]

The trade makes the Flames older. With an average age nearing 30 they are one of the oldest forward groups - a couple of years older than most. On the other hand the D group is one the younger sides at 26.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

The original question was what if they keep Tkachuk until the TDL

At TDL, contending teams will not make guys like Huberdeau and Weegar available. They need them.
Lottery teams may but they wouldn’t want to pay for a rental at that time. And they have no urgency to make any deal. And you are not going to get their draft picks. And good luck getting Tkachuk to extend with lottery team

Yeah, and the original question is answered by saying instead of one expensive TDL piece, the Flames now have two very inexpensive ones, one of whom is elite. A unicorn if you will.

At this TDL, Treliving may well decide that he will trade Huberdeau even if they are “contending” because that word doesn’t mean a lot at that point. If they are merely a playoff team, but not a favorite, and Huberdeau is unsigned, there might be a very nice package from a team that could use an elite winger who only costs a fraction of $5.9M in AAV.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The trade makes the Flames older. With an average age nearing 30 they are one of the oldest forward groups - a couple of years older than most. On the other hand the D group is one the younger sides at 26.

It depends on who fills the gaps. And when you measured average age from - right before the trade (when Gaudreau and Gudbranson weren’t on the team) or from the end of the season, since Huberdeau and Gaudreau cancel each other out in age and Weegar is younger than Gud.

[Saqe]

You really think they would be sellers at the deadline if they're in a playoff spot? That's a pretty bad message to send to the fans and the team.

[Roof-Daddy]

Again I will say, if Huberdeau and Weegar won't extend this summer, they should be flipped this summer before the season starts.

If this franchise has even the faintest sniff of a playoff chance they are unlikely to sell at the TDL IMO

Way too big of a risk

During the bubble year they were outside looking in and bought depth D when they should have been selling a guy like Brodie for example.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It is unlikely you're going to get a king's ransom at the deadline for anyone. Blue chip prospects are rarely traded at the deadline. Deadline deals are mostly centered around draft picks and middling prospects or may fill a more pressing need, or there to balance out contracts. Chiarot was traded for a couple picks and Ty Smilanic, who falls somewhere in the 8-10 range for Panther's prospects prior to this last draft, and the Panthers prospect pool is lower third of the league. When was the last time a blue chip prospect was moved at the deadline? I think you have to go back to the trade of Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg. That required the team with the established player to kick in the extra player. Unless you're looking for 1st round picks, and are okay with late first round picks, the trade deadline is not a great time to go hunting for blue chip talent.

I wonder if the next Forsberg-Erat type trade could occur with the Wild and Rossi. The Wild will be entering this season with the hopes of competing despite having a 38 year old as their starter, a 33 year old captain and arguably their most important player behind Kaprizov, Zuccarello, being 35 when they enter the playoffs.

They were just forced to give up on a nice young player because of their cap situation thanks to the Suter and Parise buyouts, but there's still three years on those. Are they just resigned to the fact they won't compete until 2025-2026 season? But then why sign a 37 year old starter? Why trade a 25 year old instead of the older players?

By the 2025-2026 season when they regain most of their cap space back, Zuccarello and Fleury will be retired, Spurgeon will be 36, Brodin and Dumba (if he doesn't walk) will be on the wrong side of 30, their somehow top line center in Hartman will likely test UFA for a much bigger payraise than the current 1.7M he makes, and Kaprizov will be a year from UFA after just wasting his prime years for a team that likely hasn't done anything.

If the Huberdeau and Weegar aren't signed then trade them crowd get their way (we won't ) I think Lindholm for Rossi might be awesome for a basis of a trade. Lindholm between Kaprizov and Zuccarello is a huge upgrade for the Wild, and his contract is about the only one that that the Wild could reasonably fit without huge team-changing moves. By the time it expires, Zuccarelo's is off the book and his 6M could be used to partially re-sign Lindholm and then the year after that they get 14M to spend thanks to Parise and Sutter mostly coming off the book.

They are in a similar situation as the Flames were as everything signals rebuild but the team isn't bad enough to tear it down and I think at least one team will benefit off the Wild being stubborn. Arguably, the Kings already have.

[bax]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

I wonder if the next Forsberg-Erat type trade could occur with the Wild and Rossi. The Wild will be entering this season with the hopes of competing despite having a 38 year old as their starter, their 33 year old captain and arguably their most important player behind Kaprizov, Zuccarello, being 35 when they enter the playoffs.

They were just forced to give up on a nice young player because of their cap situation thanks to the Suter and Parise buyouts, but there's still three years on those. Are they just resigned to the fact they won't compete until 2025-2026 season? But then why sign a 37 year old starter?

By the 2025-2026 season when they regain most of their cap space back, Zuccarello and Fleury will be retired, Spurgeon will be 36, Brodin and Dumba (if he doesn't walk) will be on the wrong side of 30, their somehow top line center in Hartman will likely test UFA for a much bigger payraise than the current 1.7M he makes, and Kaprizov will be a year from UFA after just wasting his prime years for a team that likely hasn't done anything.

If the Huberdeau and Weegar aren't signed then trade them crowd get their way (we won't ) I think Lindholm for Rossi might be awesome for a basis of a trade. Lindholm between Kaprizov and Zuccarello is a huge upgrade for the Wild, and his contract is about the only one that that the Wild could reasonably fit without huge team-changing moves. By the time it expires, Zuccarelo's is off the book and his 6M could be used to partially re-sign Lindholm and then the year after that they get 14M to spend thanks to Parise and Sutter mostly coming off the book.

They are in a similar situation as the Flames as everything signals rebuild but the team isn't bad enough to tear it down.

1. No way the Wild trade Rossi
2. They aren’t in a similar spot to the Flames at all. The Wild have arguably the best prospect pool in the NHL

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Saqe

You really think they would be sellers at the deadline if they're in a playoff spot? That's a pretty bad message to send to the fans and the team.

There are PO spots and PO spots. Wild card versus division leader. And you could probably imagine still just getting into the POs with the same team minus Huberdeau but plus whatever roster player comes back, depending on the situation.

I really really want Huberdeau to sign because he’s a fantastic player who will be worth whatever contract they give him. But I’m happy enough if they keep acquiring assets.

[Ford Prefect]

Lindholm for Rossi? Rossi would have to be the throw-in in a deal from Lindholm, not the centre piece. If Rossi is the centre piece we’re on the Erat side of that deal.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It is unlikely you're going to get a king's ransom at the deadline for anyone. Blue chip prospects are rarely traded at the deadline. Deadline deals are mostly centered around draft picks and middling prospects or may fill a more pressing need, or there to balance out contracts. Chiarot was traded for a couple picks and Ty Smilanic, who falls somewhere in the 8-10 range for Panther's prospects prior to this last draft, and the Panthers prospect pool is lower third of the league. When was the last time a blue chip prospect was moved at the deadline? I think you have to go back to the trade of Martin Erat and Michael Latta for Filip Forsberg. That required the team with the established player to kick in the extra player. Unless you're looking for 1st round picks, and are okay with late first round picks, the trade deadline is not a great time to go hunting for blue chip talent.

Totally this.

Trade deadlines are good for dumping contracts, but the returns are not usually great for players that are strictly rentals. It’s better than losing the player for nothing, but you usually aren’t getting back anything more than low-probability magic beans.

Depending on how the signings works out, this trade could force the team into a rebuild. It will just be in 2024 instead of 2023.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by bax

1. No way the Wild trade Rossi
2. They aren’t in a similar spot to the Flames at all. The Wild have arguably the best prospect pool in the NHL

I would say at best they had one of the best prospect pools. That changes quickly with Boldy already graduating and Rossi expecting to make the NHL and no blue chip prospects expected to replace them. And yet even with those players expected to be on the team full-time, the team is likely to regress based on losing Fiala and the aging of the core, notably the 35 year old Zuccarello who shouldn't be expected to be putting up 90 point pace in the next couple years.

Entering a no-man's land of exiting contender status while refusing to rebuild. I'm not saying it would be a good move for the Wild to move Rossi, but if a team came around with an offer that could help extend their window for the next two or three years while they bridge the gap between the Sutter and Parise buyouts, they're going to listen to the proposal.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again I will say, if Huberdeau and Weegar won't extend this summer, they should be flipped this summer before the season starts.

If this franchise has even the faintest sniff of a playoff chance they are unlikely to sell at the TDL IMO

Way too big of a risk

During the bubble year they were outside looking in and bought depth D when they should have been selling a guy like Brodie for example.

The problem with the ‘we can always sell at the deadline’ approach is half the teams who wind up missing the playoffs aren’t eliminated until after the deadline. This team has shown in the past that they won’t sell if they’re 3 or 4 points out.

[GioforPM]

I don’t necessarily think a TDL trade would be as a strict rental. It’d be more like the Stone trade. And maybe even to Montreal.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Saqe

You really think they would be sellers at the deadline if they're in a playoff spot? That's a pretty bad message to send to the fans and the team.

Running your business into the ground by holding past deadline is another bad message.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The problem with the ‘we can always sell at the deadline’ approach is half the teams who wind up missing the playoffs aren’t eliminated until after the deadline. This team has shown in the past that they won’t sell if they’re 3 or 4 points out.

Other than last year what big pending UFAs did they have at the deadline when they were a bubble team?

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There are PO spots and PO spots. Wild card versus division leader. And you could probably imagine still just getting into the POs with the same team minus Huberdeau but plus whatever roster player comes back, depending on the situation.

I really really want Huberdeau to sign because he’s a fantastic player who will be worth whatever contract they give him. But I’m happy enough if they keep acquiring assets.

If you're sending Huberdeau and Weegar to a playoff contender, they won't be sending any key pieces back from their team but picks and prospects. So the team would be clearly worse off this year. It's not a good look and I don't think it would happen given the ownership's apparent mandate to be competitive and not to rebuild.

I don't think they should extend Huberdeau, Weegar maybe depending what his demands are. Going from Gaudreau & Tkachuck to Huberdeau & Weegar isn't going to move the needle enough, they'll look different but better? I don't see it. Though they'll stay competitive if they re-sign both so I definitely think they're pushing for it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Saqe

If you're sending Huberdeau and Weegar to a playoff contender, they won't be sending any key pieces back from their team but picks and prospects. So the team would be clearly worse off this year. It's not a good look and I don't think it would happen given the ownership's apparent mandate to be competitive and not to rebuild.

I don't think they should extend Huberdeau, Weegar maybe depending what his demands are. Going from Gaudreau & Tkachuck to Huberdeau & Weegar isn't going to move the needle enough, they'll look different but better? I don't see it. Though they'll stay competitive if they re-sign both so I definitely think they're pushing for it.

Oh, they will be a better team if the extend those two. Huberdeau > Gaudreau. Weegar >>> Gudbranson. They lose Tkachuk but I think that loss may be made up by (a) the defensive improvement which is significant and (b) players stepping up and (c) another acquisition, maybe down the middle.

As for TDL, obviously they aren’t getting a Huberdeau equivalent back. At that point it’s based on the future. But isn’t that what a lot of people, including you, think they should do right now?

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Running your business into the ground by holding past deadline is another bad message.

I've said it before but you should absolutely not go into the season without these guys re-signed (or traded). You just lost a homegrown guy who had been with the organization a decade plus, imagine doing it again next season but now with basically two rentals unsigned?