[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Naw, Treliving could've doubled down & simply retained after arbitration and then traded him to the highest bidder at TDL. Surely, there'd be at least 10 suitors, and better returns vs the Hurricanes/Blues offers.

Then he gets a low 1st and a prospect like Cole ScWindt at the TDL. Guys like Huberdeau and Weegar are not available at TDL

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What if a GM set up a sign & trade. Got the player to negotiate the terms with team #2. Signs the contract with team #1 to those terms and then team #1 says psych, we’re not trading you? Or team #2 backs out last second?

Is there trade language built into the contract? Or is it one of those nobody’s worrying about something like that yet things until someone actually tries to pull something.

Player would likely have the NHLPA file a grievance that would end up in arbitration, perhaps take additional steps to void the contract as the team did not live up to the verbal portion which is binding (but harder to enforce).

Meanwhile no agent would ever have their player negotiate with the team when they know they aren’t acting in good faith and it would be the beginning of the end of the franchise.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Player would likely have the NHLPA file a grievance that would end up in arbitration, perhaps take additional steps to void the contract as the team did not live up to the verbal portion which is binding (but harder to enforce).

Meanwhile no agent would ever have their player negotiate with the team when they know they aren’t acting in good faith and it would be the beginning of the end of the franchise.

Any verbal portion would not be binding. But I believe the trade portion would be in writing, much like a three way trade.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Has to be in writing

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Then he gets a low 1st and a prospect like Cole ScWindt at the TDL. Guys like Huberdeau and Weegar are not available at TDL

Also you run the risk of an injury and not being able to trade him at all. I don’t believe this group will ever walk a key guy to free agency again. It will be, here’s our offer, do you want to be here?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What does the Cox article say? Don't have access to the Star.

Basically take your posts and put them into an article

- Calgary has an image problem with Fox, Tkachuk, Gaudreau not signing and Bennett asking for a trade
- Weeger and Huberdeau are older than Tkachuk and not signed beyond this year so Florida wins the trade
- They have to sign Huberdeau even if its over paying or too long.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Any verbal portion would not be binding. But I believe the trade portion would be in writing, much like a three way trade.

That's way too easy look at the situation. Verbal contracts are legally binding, if a player agrees to sign a contract based on a verbal statement which can be proven (51% probability), then contract law would dictate that the contract met the elements for a binding clause.

Now the NHL has a clause that no other considerations outside those listed on the contract can be valid, which would mean that the parties went against the CBA which would likely add to the player's position of nullifying the contract and could result in punishment to the offending team.

It's just never going to be worth it for the offending team to act that way. Best case scenario is you get a disgruntled player signed for your organization while pissing off everyone.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

That's way too easy look at the situation. Verbal contracts are legally binding, if a player agrees to sign a contract based on a verbal statement which can be proven (51% probability), then contract law would dictate that the contract met the elements for a binding clause.

Now the NHL has a clause that no other considerations outside those listed on the contract can be valid, which would mean that the parties went against the CBA which would likely add to the player's position of nullifying the contract and could result in punishment to the offending team.

It's just never going to be worth it for the offending team to act that way. Best case scenario is you get a disgruntled player signed for your organization while pissing off everyone.

Not all verbal contracts are binding. For example any contract for services which exceed a year needs to be in writing. Contracts for the sale of land need to be in writing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Not all verbal contracts are binding. For example any contract for services which exceed a year needs to be in writing. Contracts for the sale of land need to be in writing.

That’s Alberta law though, not necessarily other jurisdiction’s law.

But it’s all subject to CBA rules of course. Which, though I haven’t looked them up, surely say any agreement between team and player is not valid unless in writing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Then he gets a low 1st and a prospect like Cole ScWindt at the TDL. Guys like Huberdeau and Weegar are not available at TDL

So if guys like that are available what do they get?

[devo22]

based on Chiarot last year, Weegar probably gets you a 1st and an A prospect. Huberdeau, I struggle to think of a comparable forward who was available at the TDL in the last few years. But a king's ransom surely.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by icarus

It's a travesty Damien Cox still has a job when so many better hockey writers have been let go in recent years.

The last time I thought about Damien Cox - A few years back they put Cox on TV as a sportsnet analyst and panel host for NHL broadcasts. He was also being a hound on twitter trying to message women for nudes, and a screencap of one convo leaked and became a meme. 2017 or 2018ish. He was married. His replies would fill with people just saying his line from the message back to him. he ended up locking his account, which was weird for an analyst on national broadcasts to be unable to interact with the public on the main social media platform for it, and he soon disappeared off TV.

Also his work sucks, he's a dumbass.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by devo22

based on Chiarot last year, Weegar probably gets you a 1st and an A prospect. Huberdeau, I struggle to think of a comparable forward who was available at the TDL in the last few years. But a king's ransom surely.

If neither Huberdeau nor Weeger sign with Calgary, this trade is till a huge win for Calgary.

Their return at the deadline will be quite a bit more than what Calgary could have gotten in futures for Tkachuk today.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by devo22

based on Chiarot last year, Weegar probably gets you a 1st and an A prospect. Huberdeau, I struggle to think of a comparable forward who was available at the TDL in the last few years. But a king's ransom surely.

Hossa's the first one that comes to mind. 100 point player, traded as a rental with Dupuis.

Return doesn't look great in retrospect, but Esposito was the Penguins most recent 1st round selection and still had high hopes (in a boom or bust way), the 1st round pick was expected to be late but probably not second last late, Armstrong never really came close to reaching his rookie year but was barely a year removed and Christensen never really became that 20-20 guy he was expected to be after his 07 season.

So a 1st, a top (but not blue-chip) prospect, two young players with potential.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If neither Huberdeau nor Weeger sign with Calgary, this trade is till a huge win for Calgary.

Their return at the deadline will be quite a bit more than what Calgary could have gotten in futures for Tkachuk today.

yup, which is why I'm so in love with this trade. Gives them so many options going forward and I feel they can't lose here ... unless, you know, they don't re-sign and the Flames don't move them at the TDL, but after the Gaudreau fiasco, this has to be a non-starter.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by devo22

based on Chiarot last year, Weegar probably gets you a 1st and an A prospect. Huberdeau, I struggle to think of a comparable forward who was available at the TDL in the last few years. But a king's ransom surely.

Exactly.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If neither Huberdeau nor Weeger sign with Calgary, this trade is till a huge win for Calgary.

Their return at the deadline will be quite a bit more than what Calgary could have gotten in futures for Tkachuk today.

You have to actually trade them though for the strategy to make sense.

I can see this team finding the taste of another cup run / playoff revenue too irresistible and making the same mistake again they did this year. I hope not, but can you see Huberdeau or Weegar getting traded at the deadline if Calgary is in a playoff spot? I can't.

[DropIt]

Huberdeau is feeling very Drury-esque. Unfortunately I dont see him being here too long given the way he was moved here from Florida. Hope im wrong though

[edslunch]

I really hope they sign, but if they don't they should be flipped. Everyone talking about selling at TDL is ignoring the club's MO of competing at all costs. If they surprise us and go for a rebuild they have many attractive pieces to sell but I expect that to happen approximately never.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

You have to actually trade them though for the strategy to make sense.

I can see this team finding the taste of another cup run / playoff revenue too irresistible and making the same mistake again they did this year. I hope not, but can you see Huberdeau or Weegar getting traded at the deadline if Calgary is in a playoff spot? I can't.

if this offseason hasn't taught them anything, nothing will. I understand that playoff revenue is super important, but as a small-market team, you have to put asset management over everything else. The Flames have to be ruthless here.

I also think that the familiarity and trust with Gaudreau played a role there. When you've worked with this guy for so long, there's probably quite a bit of good faith involved. But that's not a factor with Huberdeau and Weegar.