American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Dion]

“Ms. Hutchinson stands by all of the testimony she provided yesterday, under oath, to the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol,” Hutchinson’s counsel Jody Hunt and William Jordan said in the statement.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/29/polit...ent/index.html

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Cassidy and Cheney are both heros in my book. I know both are Republicans and I dislike their politics but they’re helping to take Trump and his minions down and I respect them for that.

Both chose to fight for the truth over staying in power and towing the party line.

Hero's in my eyes,

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Cheney and Kirzinger were already strong candidates to be primaried before they voiced their opposition to Trump. These are all political opportunists who have found a path to save their reputations so that they can still get gigs on K street or in the media circles enjoyed by naive liberals.

Not sure why that the group would be the case, but regardless of the reason they are still doing something no one else is. Naive is just being perpetually angry at everyone who doesn't meet a mythical line of goodness.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Naive is just being perpetually angry at everyone who doesn't meet a mythical line of goodness.

Mythical line of goodness? If restricting abortions and voting rights are "bad," why would two people who fought in favour of those two things be good? Is your bar for "goodness" simply "Republicans who think Orange Man bad?"

[rubecube]

rOe iS oN tHe baLlOt tHiS nOVemBeR!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542261342220029958

[Dion]

So Republican

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542111667013779457

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

rOe iS oN tHe baLlOt tHiS nOVemBeR!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542261342220029958

I'm confident Biden is personally pro-Life but downplays that to stay in good graces with the party. Biden used to be vocally pro-Life and is a very devout Catholic. I think we can blame the Party for pushing a nominee that doesn't hold the values of the overwhelming majority of the Party. I think it's incredibly problematic that the power brokers within the Party are more driven by upholding the power of the Party Establishment over actually accomplishing goals. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dem Establishment is secretly happy with Dobb's as it energizes donations and Dem voters

[troutman]

Donald Trump No Longer 2024 Front-Runner as Bettors Move Support to Governors

https://www.casino.org/news/donald-t...-ron-desantis/

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by rubecube

rOe iS oN tHe baLlOt tHiS nOVemBeR!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542261342220029958

Can't read the article since you have to subscribe. What is the full story?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Can't read the article since you have to subscribe. What is the full story?

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...judge-yarmuth/

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Mythical line of goodness? If restricting abortions and voting rights are "bad," why would two people who fought in favour of those two things be good? Is your bar for "goodness" simply "Republicans who think Orange Man bad?"

I don't think any of them are good and but I don't think everyone who doesn't believe in the same things I do is evil.

You are viewing it as a binary choice... Once you turn bad, you can never do anything right. I'm not saying I'd vote for them or they are now great Americans, but I can acknowledge when people do something good for their country even if they aren't someone I vote for.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by devo22

sure, we can blindly demonize these people for being Republicans and counter their positive actions re Trump with "yeah, but ...", but in my book, every Republican who chooses to snap out of it is a positive. It would have been easy for people like Cheney, Kinzinger etc. to just tow the party line, yet they didn't. Hutchinson could have just not testified, yet she did. I'm not cynical enough to just disregard those things, especially since they did them despite the overwhelming backlash they'd face from their own ranks.

It’s not blind. It’s the opposite of blind. It’s evaluating their full resume and not just taking their most recent action and blindly ignoring their track record like you’re doing.

This isn’t cynicism. It’s reality. These people have a lot of red in their ledger. This is not redemption. It’s the bare minimum to save them from being pure scum. Not they’re just mostly scum.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Is the tide turning though? Trump lost the election yes, but do you see America moving towards democracy or authoritarianism. I am really not sure to be honest.

Poor phrasing on my part. More like opportunism on their part.

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Cheney is very likely going to lose the Republican primary in Wyoming and lose her senate seat.

You can hate her politics and what she has done, but compared to the rest of the Republicans who all just fell in line, she is doing something.

If we just demonize everyone who ever supported Trump what is the motivation for anyone to ever turn on him.

It’s not demonizing, it’s evaluating their track record and behaviour. One good deed doesn’t wipe out a laundry list of terrible actions.

You don’t get to be cheered as a saviour when you start the fire that burns down the house but then decide to help clean up the ashes. The damage is done.

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I don't think any of them are good and but I don't think everyone who doesn't believe in the same things I do is evil.

You are viewing it as a binary choice... Once you turn bad, you can never do anything right. I'm not saying I'd vote for them or they are now great Americans, but I can acknowledge when people do something good for their country even if they aren't someone I vote for.

It’s definitely you seeing it as a binary choice. It’s recency bias. Sure it’s better late than never but it still isn’t good enough. These people aren’t heroes, they aren’t making great personal sacrifices and their actions don’t deserve our admiration.

At best they deserve an “it’s about goddamn time”. They’ve done the bare minimum. The least amount to gain a modicum of respect that until now they’d completely lost.

[Fuzz]

LOL...unintended consequences...people who want nothing more than to have a baby using IVF may be contributing to MURDER.

Arkansas' abortion ban, which went into effect on Friday, defines an "unborn child" as starting at fertilization. That left Dean Moutos, who runs Arkansas Fertility & Gynecology, the state’s sole provider of in vitro fertilization, with questions.

The law makes no mention of IVF, but Moutos immediately wondered: Could his patients’ frozen embryos be defined as unborn children under the law? Could discarding those embryos be considered an abortion?

"If a law is written to establish personhood of a fertilized egg or an embryo, for example, then discarding an embryo would violate that law. It would be considered homicide," said Priscilla Smith, director of the Program for the Study of Reproductive Justice at Yale Law School.

That might even apply, legal experts said, to people who damage an embryo in a lab or clinic. Or in some cases, patients who don’t intend to store or use an embryo might be forced to relinquish control over it to a doctor or clinic, as is already the case under Louisiana law.

"If legislators enact personhood laws, they will substantially undermine IVF patients’ ability to make decisions about their care, including what to do with frozen embryos," said Karla Torres, senior human rights counsel at the Center for Reproductive Rights.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...?ICID=ref_fark

The whole article is worth reading. Interesting stuff.


Presumably stem cell research will be banned soon enough.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It’s not blind. It’s the opposite of blind. It’s evaluating their full resume and not just taking their most recent action and blindly ignoring their track record like you’re doing.

This isn’t cynicism. It’s reality. These people have a lot of red in their ledger. This is not redemption. It’s the bare minimum to save them from being pure scum. Not they’re just mostly scum.



Poor phrasing on my part. More like opportunism on their part.



It’s not demonizing, it’s evaluating their track record and behaviour. One good deed doesn’t wipe out a laundry list of terrible actions.

You don’t get to be cheered as a saviour when you start the fire that burns down the house but then decide to help clean up the ashes. The damage is done.



It’s definitely you seeing it as a binary choice. It’s recency bias. Sure it’s better late than never but it still isn’t good enough. These people aren’t heroes, they aren’t making great personal sacrifices and their actions don’t deserve our admiration.

At best they deserve an “it’s about goddamn time”. They’ve done the bare minimum. The least amount to gain a modicum of respect that until now they’d completely lost.

No one is calling them heros. They are saying they did a good thing.

Being unable to acknowledge that is seeing things too black and white. No one is 100% evil. If some KKK grand wizard saves my kid from getting hit by a bus - that KKK grand wizard did a good thing that can be acknowledged despite him being an overall terrible person.

People are complex. The worst person you know probably did something admirable today and the best you know probably did something bad. Being so polarized that you can't admit when someone you disagree with did something right is not a win for getting out of the over heated political mess the US is in (and some in Canada desperately want us to get to)

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The whole article is worth reading. Interesting stuff.

Presumably stem cell research will be banned soon enough.

... Forgot to pay your power bill? MURDERER

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

No one is calling them heros.

Originally Posted by Dion

Hero's in my eyes,

...

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

No one is calling them heros.

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Cassidy and Cheney are both heros in my book.

...

[PsYcNeT]

The snowball on this slippery slope sure is getting bigger...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1542509377705259013

[Looch City]

Take that cLiMaTe ChAnGe!!21

[Locke]

This is going well.