American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[MoneyGuy]

Cassidy and Cheney are both heros in my book. I know both are Republicans and I dislike their politics but they’re helping to take Trump and his minions down and I respect them for that.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Cassidy and Cheney are both heros in my book. I know both are Republicans and I dislike their politics but they’re helping to take Trump and his minions down and I respect them for that.

They’re cowards and opportunists. They see the tide is turning and want to wash the blood off their guilty as sin hands.

You don’t get to be on the side of the fascists who overthrow democracy and then become a hero because you testified after it’s all over.

Heroes sacrifice in the moment. Not watch from the sidelines, or worse actively participate, only to turncoat later on.

[devo22]

sure, we can blindly demonize these people for being Republicans and counter their positive actions re Trump with "yeah, but ...", but in my book, every Republican who chooses to snap out of it is a positive. It would have been easy for people like Cheney, Kinzinger etc. to just tow the party line, yet they didn't. Hutchinson could have just not testified, yet she did. I'm not cynical enough to just disregard those things, especially since they did them despite the overwhelming backlash they'd face from their own ranks.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

He was in the back seat of an SUV.
Pretty easy to lunge up between the seats.

Anyone who is focusing on "How did he grab the steering wheel" is willfully focusing on something trivial so they don't have to acknowledge the rest of the INCREDIBLY DAMNING story.

Nope, I was asking a question because I was curious about it. Not sure why you immediately take that to indicate that I'm some MAGA dickhead. For the record, if the Republican party all took a running jump off a cliff, I'd be ecstatic. But I shouldn't have to mention that just so I can post about this topic.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

They’re cowards and opportunists. They see the tide is turning and want to wash the blood off their guilty as sin hands.

You don’t get to be on the side of the fascists who overthrow democracy and then become a hero because you testified after it’s all over.

Heroes sacrifice in the moment. Not watch from the sidelines, or worse actively participate, only to turncoat later on.

Is the tide turning though? Trump lost the election yes, but do you see America moving towards democracy or authoritarianism. I am really not sure to be honest.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Swift

I didn't follow any of it, just what was posted here, but something doesn't ring true. How would Trump have been able to grab the wheel, or attempt to? Surely US Presidents don't sit up front with their Secret Service driver?

Photo taken by Pete Souza, who is an American photojournalist, the former Chief Official White House Photographer for Presidents of the United States Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama and the former director of the White House Photography Office.

[GirlySports]

Is an aide really a Republican? Yeah, Liz Cheney is a politician who is a US Representative for the Republicans, no argument there. But is an aide really a Republican or is it just a job they picked up in their career? An aide has no power to do anything.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Swift

Nope, I was asking a question because I was curious about it. Not sure why you immediately take that to indicate that I'm some MAGA dickhead. For the record, if the Republican party all took a running jump off a cliff, I'd be ecstatic. But I shouldn't have to mention that just so I can post about this topic.

Easy there buddy.
I answered your question and added my 2 cents about people who are/will focus on that as a way to discredit the whole story.

If that isn't you, don't worry about it, I wasn't calling you some MAGA dickhead.

It's an easy "Asked and answered".
So everyone should be done talking about "How did he grab the wheel".
If you're done great talking about that, great, my point about people ignoring everything else doesn't apply to you.
If you're not done, then my point about ignoring everything else stands.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Is an aide really a Republican? Yeah, Liz Cheney is a politician who is a US Representative for the Republicans, no argument there. But is an aide really a Republican or is it just a job they picked up in their career? An aide has no power to do anything.

Would you take a job working for a politician if you didn't agree with their values and agenda? I know I sure wouldn't.

And it's not like someone would take that job out of desperation. If you have the necessary skills and experience to be a Washington political aide, there are plenty of other jobs you'd be qualified for.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

They’re cowards and opportunists. They see the tide is turning and want to wash the blood off their guilty as sin hands.

You don’t get to be on the side of the fascists who overthrow democracy and then become a hero because you testified after it’s all over.

Heroes sacrifice in the moment. Not watch from the sidelines, or worse actively participate, only to turncoat later on.

Cheney is very likely going to lose the Republican primary in Wyoming and lose her senate seat.

You can hate her politics and what she has done, but compared to the rest of the Republicans who all just fell in line, she is doing something.

If we just demonize everyone who ever supported Trump what is the motivation for anyone to ever turn on him.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Would you take a job working for a politician if you didn't agree with their values and agenda? I know I sure wouldn't.

And it's not like someone would take that job out of desperation. If you have the necessary skills and experience to be a Washington political aide, there are plenty of other jobs you'd be qualified for.

She's worked with Ted Cruz and Mark Meadows. Very likely she's a deep red Republican. That doesn't make someone evil.

[timun]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Very likely she's a deep red Republican. That doesn't make someone evil.

Doesn't it though...?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Is an aide really a Republican? Yeah, Liz Cheney is a politician who is a US Representative for the Republicans, no argument there. But is an aide really a Republican or is it just a job they picked up in their career? An aide has no power to do anything.

An Aide would most certainly have the same leanings as the person/party they serve.

They work for the representative exclusively so would likely have similar political leanings to that person. You could assist in preparing speaking notes, questions, etc. so you would want to be attuned to that spectrum.

I know a few people that have worked as Aides and Advisors to MP/MLAs. They typically get that job with some connection to the person or party (attending events, volunteering etc.). It is generally a first step in an extensive political career with the party.

However, not every representative is similar. Even in Alberta, there is a lot that separates an Aheer from a Loewen etc. Some Aides may be more centrist or extremist but proximity and geography make them work for someone they may disagree with on points, but you essentially bleed Blue/Red/Orange/Green together

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by devo22

sure, we can blindly demonize these people for being Republicans and counter their positive actions re Trump with "yeah, but ...", but in my book, every Republican who chooses to snap out of it is a positive. It would have been easy for people like Cheney, Kinzinger etc. to just tow the party line, yet they didn't. Hutchinson could have just not testified, yet she did. I'm not cynical enough to just disregard those things, especially since they did them despite the overwhelming backlash they'd face from their own ranks.

I agree. Cheney and Hutchinson chose to do their part to take Trump down at great personal and professional risk. If Cheney has an intention to run again I think her position on the committee and the things she’s saying will cause her to lose her election. Most Republicans are choosing to back Trump and tow the party line. I give credit to those who now choose to do the right thing. I expect that both of these women will receive threats to their personal safety.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Is the tide turning though? Trump lost the election yes, but do you see America moving towards democracy or authoritarianism. I am really not sure to be honest.

To become authoritarian the USA would have to throw out its constitution, and I don't see any willingness to do that. While this faith in the constitution sets a ceiling, it also sets a floor. It's not even close to a fair democracy, but it's far from authoritarian.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by SebC

To become authoritarian the USA would have to throw out its constitution, and I don't see any willingness to do that. While this faith in the constitution sets a ceiling, it also sets a floor. It's not even close to a fair democracy, but it's far from authoritarian.

Agree. But the SCOTUS appears to have no regard anymore for the will of the people nor previous precedents set by the court. They, along with the Senate, have tremendous power to do what they feel in an undemocratic fashion. And if you aren't democratic, then what are you?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Agree. But the SCOTUS appears to have no regard anymore for the will of the people nor previous precedents set by the court. They, along with the Senate, have tremendous power to do what they feel in an undemocratic fashion. And if you aren't democratic, then what are you?

SCOTUS really shouldn't have an interest in the will of the people. SCOTUS members should just be focused on the law. The democratically elected branches are the ones who should care about the will of the people, and it's questionable how much they do.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Agree. But the SCOTUS appears to have no regard anymore for the will of the people nor previous precedents set by the court. They, along with the Senate, have tremendous power to do what they feel in an undemocratic fashion. And if you aren't democratic, then what are you?

Judicial independence is a principle in Canada too - it's deliberately undemocratic, yet nobody would consider us to be not a democracy for it. And what we're seeing in the US is in effect a consequence of judges being selected by the elected whenever a judge dies. It is arguably a case of too much democracy. One could argue that it's a case of not enough democracy as well, and both are probably correct - a less politicized judiciary would make less political decisions, and a more politicized judiciary would better reflect the will of the citizens. I would prefer the former, as it enables the judiciary to be a bulwark against tyranny of the majority.

The US system is democratic, but not proportional. As is the Canadian one, btw. Also of note is that an "elected dictatorship" is a democracy, not a dictatorship. One might argue that proportionality is a requirement for democracy, but that argument fails to retain consistency with common definitions. One could, however, argue that proportionality is a requirement for greater democracy, and indeed that argument is one that I've often put forth myself.

It is easy to conflate constitutional liberalism with democracy, because they often go hand in hand. The USA is suffering defects in both its democracy and its constitutional liberalism. Its constitution and judiciary don't do enough to protect human rights, and its legislative and executive are disproportionate enough that they can enact unpopular legislation that infringes on those unprotected rights.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by devo22

sure, we can blindly demonize these people for being Republicans and counter their positive actions re Trump with "yeah, but ...", but in my book, every Republican who chooses to snap out of it is a positive. It would have been easy for people like Cheney, Kinzinger etc. to just tow the party line, yet they didn't. Hutchinson could have just not testified, yet she did. I'm not cynical enough to just disregard those things, especially since they did them despite the overwhelming backlash they'd face from their own ranks.

Cheney and Kirzinger were already strong candidates to be primaried before they voiced their opposition to Trump. These are all political opportunists who have found a path to save their reputations so that they can still get gigs on K street or in the media circles enjoyed by naive liberals.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Photo taken by Pete Souza, who is an American photojournalist, the former Chief Official White House Photographer for Presidents of the United States Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama and the former director of the White House Photography Office.

Apparently they weren't in 'the beast' but used one of the SUV's which are pretty much normal other than armoured