Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[CalgaryFan1988]

^^ Everything is easy with the benefit of hindsight. Easier just to say who you would have drafted since 2013, less to type.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

^^ Everything is easy with the benefit of hindsight. Easier just to say who you would have drafted since 2013, less to type.

It's not hindsight though. It was said in 2011, 2012, 2013 while Iginla had value but the Flames didn't have a good enough team to support him. Instead they got nothing. It was said in 2015, it's being said in 2022 (though Gaudreau signing or not is obviously a huge difference).

As long as the Flames ownership is willing to spend, they will not bottom out, they'll continue to fight for a spot in playoffs, making it some years, not others, but never being a favourite.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

the Flames will not he bad enough nor aging out to the point if triggering a rebuild.

This couldn't be more correct. I just fear it could be said from 2009-2050.

[OptimalTates]

And while lost in discussion, this stems from the the hypothetical that the Flames lose Gaudreau.

If they lose their best player for nothing, and their former first line center is injured and maybe a shell of his former self, if that's not the time to rebuild there never will be for the Flames.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

For all we know, ownership did not allow him to trade him.

I forgot thats the other excuse you use for his performance.
Any more excuses for getting to the possibility of losing Johnny for nothing?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

It's not hindsight though. It was said in 2011, 2012, 2013 while Iginla had value but the Flames didn't have a good enough team to support him. Instead they got nothing. It was said in 2015, it's being said in 2022 (though Gaudreau signing or not is obviously a huge difference).

As long as the Flames ownership is willing to spend, they will not bottom out, they'll continue to fight for a spot in playoffs, making it some years, not others, but never being a favourite.


This couldn't be more correct. I just fear it could be said from 2009-2050.

It could be said about a lot of Canadian teams, comes with the ability to sell out games regardless of the quality of the team. Less pressure on owners to do a rebuild.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Flyers are definitely gonna be pushing to sign Johnny

https://twitter.com/user/status/1537889304822722560

Ok Johnny for Sean Couturier

Johnny gets to go home and we get a 2 way center

Assuming Johnny wants to go home.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Flyers are definitely gonna be pushing to sign Johnny

https://twitter.com/user/status/1537889304822722560

Between them and the Devils Johnny is going to have really good options to play close to home. I can't fault him for waiting for free agency to see what those teams can offer him.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cobra

I forgot thats the other excuse you use for his performance.
Any more excuses for getting to the possibility of losing Johnny for nothing?

Sure: COVID and the ensuing cap crunch really killed the trade market. As did the expansion draft. I don’t think this org has the courage to make that kind of move, but I also think there just hasn’t been a great return out there for them to seriously consider it.


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[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Between them and the Devils Johnny is going to have really good options to play close to home. I can't fault him for waiting for free agency to see what those teams can offer him.

So because DD who has as much insider information on this as my dog does thinks Gaudreau's going to FA it's a forgone conclusion? I don't think so. Since when does Dreger get anything right that does not have to do with the Leafs? I would trust Eklund more than Dreger.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So because DD who has as much insider information on this as my dog does thinks Gaudreau's going to FA it's a forgone conclusion? I don't think so. Since when does Dreger get anything right that does not have to do with the Leafs? I would trust Eklund more than Dreger.

Maybe I missed something but where did Dreger say anything about Gaudreau? You can trust whomever you want but you have taken a stance a long time ago and chosen to ignore what's right in front of you. As the days go by the better the odds of a massive dump of egg on your face as your steadfast denial has been pretty epic. I'm not saying he's gone but one has to accept that there's a very good chance he chooses to see what's out there and that likely means he's gone as the Flames will not be able to wait and will have to move to plan B.

[Badgers Nose]

If he isn't staying I wish he would authorize a trade and sign. Destination team gets extra year to lessen the cap hit, we get something to show for losing him.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Flyers are definitely gonna be pushing to sign Johnny

https://twitter.com/user/status/1537889304822722560

Flyers are a team perfectly set up to just rip it apart and rebuild yet they have no plans to do so.

[2macinnis2]

Does Torterella really help? I thought he was fairly unpopular amongst players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So because DD who has as much insider information on this as my dog does thinks Gaudreau's going to FA it's a forgone conclusion? I don't think so. Since when does Dreger get anything right that does not have to do with the Leafs? I would trust Eklund more than Dreger.

He likely has a better idea of what’s going down than you.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He likely has a better idea of what’s going down than you.

No he doesn't and if you believe that you have not been following anybody close to Calgary. Both camps are not saying anything, there is nothing to report and no insider knows anything. I theorize he is staying, Dreger thinks he will test the market. Neither of us knows more than the other. But thanks for showing up with another snarky remark, you never disappoint.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Maybe I missed something but where did Dreger say anything about Gaudreau? You can trust whomever you want but you have taken a stance a long time ago and chosen to ignore what's right in front of you. As the days go by the better the odds of a massive dump of egg on your face as your steadfast denial has been pretty epic. I'm not saying he's gone but one has to accept that there's a very good chance he chooses to see what's out there and that likely means he's gone as the Flames will not be able to wait and will have to move to plan B.

Dreger said he would test FA and the Flyers would be players on Gaudreau. You are right, I am totally going the wrong way on this as a fan on this board, I should believe everything Gaudreau said was pure lip service, he's a goddamn liar and really wants to go back East because apparently he is still a child and can't be away from his parents or friends, Tkachuk will then walk for nothing a year from now, the team will draft mid draft for the next 50 years, probably from Houston. Do I fit in here now? I think I will just stay as a part of the optimistic minority on here.

[tvp2003]

Random thought: What are the odds Johnny has already agreed to a figure in principle, but it’s dependent on getting Tkachuk signed to a multi-year extension? 1%? 0.1%?

I mean, I have to believe they’ve at least discussed it (Johnny and Matthew), and obviously one signing probably increases the likelihood of the other doing so as well (with the inverse probably also true, but to a lesser extent).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Random thought: What are the odds Johnny has already agreed to a figure in principle, but it’s dependent on getting Tkachuk signed to a multi-year extension? 1%? 0.1%?

I mean, I have to believe they’ve at least discussed it (Johnny and Matthew), and obviously one signing probably increases the likelihood of the other doing so as well (with the inverse probably also true, but to a lesser extent).

I think if anything they would want to have him sign it in town, because it would be a huge deal.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Of course not, because the year before they had traded futures for the likes of Russell, Colborne and Galiardi while the year before that they had signed Hudler and Wideman to try and stay competitive with Iginla for that last hurray.

So instead of trading Iginla at the start of 2012 and doing a rebuild, they kept him, bolstered the team, still sucked but not enough to draft MacKinnon or Barkov (though lucky that they did get a quality player in Monahan).

And now even after Iginla's departure, and unlike the Avalanche when they lost Sakic or the Lightning when they lost Richards, because the Flames had Wideman and Hudler in 2014, they are bad but not bad enough to get Draisaitl or Ekblad.

But now Monahan has had a solid rookie year, Gaudreau's left college, they could be better a team despite losing Cammalleri. Certainly not a favourite, but just good enough that if you supplement them with Hiller, Raymond, Engelland and Bollig that they could squeak into the playoffs apparently.

Oh, and they do! So no turning back now. Can't afford to have that first round pick take time to develop, so trade it for an established player in Hamilton instead of drafting Barzal and having him develop in the WHL for a year.

And Hamilton flourishes with the Flames in his first year - just enough to keep them from bottoming out and going for a player like Matthews when they move Hudler at the deadline. (Thank #### for the Canucks or else the Flames could be stuck with Juolevi or something instead of Tkachuk from this draft).

Time to go for it now certainly. Brouwer? Don't mind if I do. Hey team is doing alright, again not a favourite at all, but let's trade some futures for Michael Stone. Oh, got swept?

Well that's fine since Tkachuk kicked ass. So let's make a splash and trade a 1st+ for Hamonic. Mike Smith for a draft pick? Bargain!

Missed the playoffs and no first round pick? Well things are about to get real...real deal that is. Bring in Neal surely he will be the one to bring the Flames over the edge.

It's been 15 years of this. It wasn't that Hiller, Engelland, Bollig and Raymond were the difference between the playoffs and McDavid, it was that the Flames were determined to fight for the playoffs instead of not signing those guys and trading Hudler, Russell and friends and bottoming out (huge credit for trading Glencross that year though).

Why are we going back to the failure to trade Iginla earlier? If the Flames lose Gaudreau then it will be terrible. But they also won’t have another $10m to $11m player to squeeze into the roster. Doesn’t replace that talent immediately but it leaves flexibility.

I bet many fans would agree that the decision to speed up the rebuild was wrong with the benefit of hindsight. I bet if you ask Treliving he’d agree that he was too aggressive with the team in the rebuild. At the time people were thinking this team was projecting very well. Not sure that means sending out all the good players for draft picks is the right choice at this point in time.

I can’t agree either trade Hamilton was a bad trade. Hamonic was a bad trade in hindsight. I still think Bennett not turning into a first line centre is what slowed things down. Could still turn out if Monahan returns to some form and we have Lindholm still there.

I still think collecting as many good players as you can in any way you can makes as much sense regardless of the phase your team is currently situated.


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[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If he isn't staying I wish he would authorize a trade and sign. Destination team gets extra year to lessen the cap hit, we get something to show for losing him.

That idea is more in the team's hands - they would give Johnny permission to talk to other teams - if he finds a deal he likes then the signing team would negotiate with CGY if they want the 8th year and/or to just get it inked early.

There is also a hail-mary element to it where if nobody is making him a particularly competitive offer then he comes back to the Flames best offer.

But it really depends on exactly how detailed tampering conversations are - is Johnny currently comparing CGY's specific offer with other specific offers, or are they just ballpark offers at this point that he can't completely rely on (ie. a team might have feelers out on both Forsberg and Gaudreau)...