I know we're all on Team Ukraine at the moment, but in the big picture this is still not a country that the EU/NATO should need or want in their ranks. It has been, and remains, a highly corrupt and broken nation full of the same type of a-holes like in Russia (perhaps even worse?) and where any legitimate capital gets quickly syphoned off into a black hole. It would be nothing but a giant, costly, and potentially very dangerous headache.
I think we all need to keep in mind that just because Russia is bad, it doesn't mean that Ukraine is necessarily "good".
All your statements are correct, and Ukraine has a ton of work to do to become a member. But with pro-West sentiment at an all-time high, he is capitalizing on the emotions. He's a politician at the end of the day.
I don't blame him one bit, I think he truly has the desire to become a full member.
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Eff that. Should be zero gains from this sort of action. All borders should be returned to pre-2014. (ie return Crimea. Get hanged.)
The only people that can stop this without total NATO v Russia war is the Russian people, military and "business" leaders overthrowing Putin before he does something worse.
If the only hope for peace is that Russia overthrow Putin from within, that means that hardline stance of returning borders to pre-2014 doesn't work. We should look for realistic way out, not for some idealistic fairy tail ending.
I know we're all on Team Ukraine at the moment, but in the big picture this is still not a country that the EU/NATO should need or want in their ranks. It has been, and remains, a highly corrupt and broken nation full of the same type of a-holes like in Russia (perhaps even worse) and where any legitimate capital gets quickly syphoned off into a murky black hole. It would be nothing but a costly, and potentially very dangerous headache. I think we all need to keep in mind that just because Russia is bad, it doesn't mean that Ukraine is necessarily "good".
Are you the type of guy that reminds a drowning man that he should have taken swimming lessons?
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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If the only hope for peace is that Russia overthrow Putin from within, that means that hardline stance of returning borders to pre-2014 doesn't work. We should look for realistic way out, not for some idealistic fairy tail ending.
And yes Putin should end up in the Hague.
I don't think I could stomach the years of bull#### politics surrounding the court if he ended up at the ICC. Only to be sentenced to 5 years, then released on appeal.
I truly hope he dies quickly. Don't care if it's cancer, covid, or the Rasputin treatment. If that makes me a bad person, I'll take on that burden. But the suffering in Ukraine needs to stop immediately, and I think this is the quickest way.
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I don't think I could stomach the years of bull#### politics surrounding the court if he ended up at the ICC. Only to be sentenced to 5 years, then released on appeal.
I truly hope he dies quickly. Don't care if it's cancer, covid, or the Rasputin treatment. If that makes me a bad person, I'll take on that burden. But the suffering in Ukraine needs to stop immediately, and I think this is the quickest way.
I hope it goes more like this.
NSFW!
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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Do a USA-Ukraine defensive pact. Why not? It's diplomacy, you have to be flexible and creative. I understand everyone, including Putin's own military leaders, want to shoot him right now. But we need real solutions for real world, to save real lives.
I don't know the details of what has been happening in the Donbass region at all. Has there really been constant conflict this whole time? Has it been a battleground for 8 years yet I'm just learning about it now? Or is it fabricated bull#### from Putin? Is there anything here?
This guy has been documenting his travels throughout Eastern Europe for years and does a good summary and shows you the region from ground level
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Do a USA-Ukraine defensive pact. Why not? It's diplomacy, you have to be flexible and creative. I understand everyone, including Putin's own military leaders, want to shoot him right now. But we need real solutions for real world, to save real lives.
I know we're all on Team Ukraine at the moment, but in the big picture this is still not a country that the EU/NATO should need or want in their ranks. It has been, and remains, a highly corrupt and broken nation full of the same type of a-holes like in Russia (perhaps even worse?) and where any legitimate capital gets quickly syphoned off into a murky black hole. It would be nothing but a costly, and potentially very dangerous headache. I think we all need to keep in mind that just because Russia is bad, it doesn't mean that Ukraine is necessarily "good".
I think EU membership is a viable longer-term option (assuming they can recover from whatever puppet regime that Russia will likely install if they take control), but there's no way NATO should be entering into a mutual defense agreement with a country that has had two revolutions in the last 20 years and who has been battling an insurgency for the last 8 years. Way too much chance of escalation.
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I don't think I could stomach the years of bull#### politics surrounding the court if he ended up at the ICC. Only to be sentenced to 5 years, then released on appeal.
I truly hope he dies quickly. Don't care if it's cancer, covid, or the Rasputin treatment. If that makes me a bad person, I'll take on that burden. But the suffering in Ukraine needs to stop immediately, and I think this is the quickest way.
I also want to wake up tomorrow and learn that Putin is dead. In fact, I want to read it every time I refresh reddit. But we can't hinge the solution on this hope.
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I know we're all on Team Ukraine at the moment, but in the big picture this is still not a country that the EU/NATO should need or want in their ranks. It has been, and remains, a highly corrupt and broken nation full of the same type of a-holes like in Russia (perhaps even worse) and where any legitimate capital gets quickly syphoned off into a murky black hole. It would be nothing but a costly, and potentially very dangerous headache. I think we all need to keep in mind that just because Russia is bad, it doesn't mean that Ukraine is necessarily "good".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan
^Jesus dude, read the room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
Are you the type of guy that reminds a drowning man that he should have taken swimming lessons?
IDK, I think it's a fair comment.
Does anybody in CP want their kids heading over to fight for Ukraine against Russia? I don't. I'm also concerned admitting them into NATO makes for a more dangerous world; not less.
I can really see how appeasement was the first strategy against the Nazis. I mean, I look at this and hope that 1. Putin is repelled by Ukraine or 2. If he isn't that he stops there. I definitely don't want more countries joining this because I don't see how it ends well for anyone.
We can't forget nuclear weapons are on the table here. Say we all join in and push the Russians out of Ukraine and then do what we can to neuter their military some more so they can't just restart the fight when we leave...what do we think Putin will do? He'll using fataing nuclear weapons.
Nuclear weapons have us over a barrel. If you go charging into Russia, they will be used. Why wouldn't they? He'd be crazy not to use them at that point.
If this war is such that Ukraine is going to lose, maybe they surrender and we all mourn the brutality and lack of fairness in the world, but the world gets to keep turning and we don't nuke a city or 20.
Sometimes there are no-win situations. I think this is one. I believe we are seeing pro-Ukraine propaganda that makes some of us think Ukrainians are putting up a bigger and better fight than they are. I think in the end, they lose. When that point becomes the blatantly obvious outcome, they need to surrender and call it a day. Or live with war and guerilla war for the next decade or two. Sucks balls.
Last edited by Sliver; 02-28-2022 at 10:44 AM.
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I also want to wake up tomorrow and learn that Putin is dead. In fact, I want to read it every time I refresh reddit. But we can't hinge the solution on this hope.
It's been said before, but I (and likely all of us) appreciate your posts, especially your point of view.
I haven't come across a single person so far who is mad at or hates the Russian people. Everyone I know almost universally realizes this is all on the madman, the Russians are also victims.
Do a USA-Ukraine defensive pact. Why not? It's diplomacy, you have to be flexible and creative. I understand everyone, including Putin's own military leaders, want to shoot him right now. But we need real solutions for real world, to save real lives.
I'm not in a too diplomatic mood, considering all the problems are of Russia's creation.
I do not believe one country should be telling another country how they should approach international security.
On a scale of 1-10 how receptive would Russia be to joint de-militarization.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
