2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Depends where you are in your cycle.

When you have Stamkos and Hedman as teenagers/early 20s, you wanna take more draft picks.

We’re past drafting ourselves out of any of this team’s issues - Pelletier, Zary and Coronato better be able to contribute, because Darryl Sutter is not going to be giving any top-90 selections in the next three drafts any significant minutes while we have Johnny in his late 20s early 30s, Tkachuk, (presumably) Lindholm and Markstrom.

They do need to find a gem or two in the later rounds, but what they need more than anything is another superstar.

Realistically, you need two centres that would each be a #1C on 20-25 teams - Lindholm is an ideal #2C in this arrangement.

It’s incredibly unlikely to win a championship without at least a top-2 pick, or two top-3 picks that become superstars.

We have one superstar - there hasn’t been a team to win a championship with one superstar in the cap era.

It cannot be done.

Lindy now is as good as O'Reilly was during the Blues' cup run. If you don't agree with that, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

None of Johnny, Chucky, Lindy were drafted top 3 in their drafts. That doesn't take away from how good they are or how valuable they are to this team.

You didn't categorize Chucky as a superstar, though if you look at his production, he does seem to be trending in that direction. More than a point per game and he's not even 25 yet.

Johnny is, well, Johnny. One of the best players in the league.

As for Tampa, let's call a spade a spade, they basically cheated the cap last year to win the cup. So I guess they just legitimately won one cup by going all-in and bleeding futures. And even then it was a weird bubble playoff tournament where a lot of players, let's face it, didn't see the upside of staying in the bubble for as long as possible. Tampa was playing with a chip on their shoulders after the first round embarrasment the prior year, but you didn't really get the sense that there were many teams in the bubble playing with the same level of determination that Tampa had. If Covid hadn't happened, I'm not entirely convinced that Tampa would have won that cup, or that Dallas would have made it to the final for that matter.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tampa begin to decline starting next season when Point's cap hit jumps to where it should be, and their shortage of futures begins to take its toll.

[GreenLantern2814]

You can find franchise players all over, but it’s easier when you draft top-3. And you can’t whiff on those selections.

You MUST have two centres. We have Lindholm - he probably is an O’Reilly level player, no real argument here. But No other centre on this roster is a championship caliber top 2 C.

Pittsburgh- Sid and Geno
Chicago- Toews, Sharp/Richards
Anaheim- MacDonald, Getzlaf
Boston- Bergeron, Krecji
Detroit- Datsyuk, Zetterberg
LA- Kopitar, Carter
Washington- Backstrom, Kuznetzov
St Louis- O’Reilly, Schenn
Carolina- Staal, Brind’Amour

Calgary- Lindholm, Monahan? Backlund?

That makes it super tough. Now, if anyone can make it work, it’s Darryl.

I’d feel much better if we were running Lindholm/Pavelski one-two instead of what we’ve got.

And it’s highly unlikely we will draft a centre that can play with this group of top guys in the next 3-5 years - Dube was drafted five years ago, and he’s yet to become anything special.

If such a player exists, he’s already been drafted. There’s no sense expecting a 2nd or late 1st this year to be more impactful than anyone we could trade for.

(And if we spend a 1st on Toffoli and not a centre… smh)

[Mathgod]

^ ah yeah, you do have a point about the centres. It highlights the importance of not mismanaging Benny and sending him away.

[GreenLantern2814]

Bennett has been a .96 PPG centre since he got to Florida. He’s +32.

That’s devastating.

Gaudreau-Bennett-
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Coleman-Backlund-
Lucic-Monahan-

That’s a much easier roster to fill out when you’re not looking for yet another unicorn top-2 C.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It highlights the importance of not mismanaging Benny and sending him away.

The Flames did not mismanage Bennett. Bennett #### the bed in opportunities given to him. How many years did they give him just because of his draft pedigree? Bennett is as responsible as the Flames for his #### performance. He was exceptionally lucky to be traded to a team who had a top 3 scorer in the NHL who he could be put on a line with that would inflate his numbers (this is equivalent as being traded to Edmonton and played with McDavid). The Flames did not have a player of this ilk that could work with Bennett, so that resulted in his departure. The Flames are better off as a result, because Bennett would NOT have achieved the same numbers in Calgary - or any other team - he has since the deal was made. If Bennett stays with the Flames, we're still wondering if Bennett will ever break out. The Flames did not have the players to make Bennett work in Calgary. Move on.

[GreenLantern2814]

What does Vegas want for Karlsson? Or even Chandler Stephenson.

The middle of the ice has to be the priority.

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What does Vegas want for Karlsson? Or even Chandler Stephenson.

The middle of the ice has to be the priority.

Why would Vegas trade with a direct competitor in the Flames?

[Monahammer]

Karlsson and Stephenson are not better than Backlund or Monahan. If you must improve centre ice at least get an actual improvement instead of an imagined one.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by keratosis

Why would Vegas trade with a direct competitor in the Flames?

Because we might actually offer what some of these players are worth, instead of trying to pick off a player at a cut rate because of the Knights’ cap concerns.

They still might not, but no harm in trying.

If the team truly fancies itself a contender, and there’s every reason they should, they need another centre.

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Because we might actually offer what some of these players are worth, instead of trying to pick off a player at a cut rate because of the Knights’ cap concerns.



They still might not, but no harm in trying.



If the team truly fancies itself a contender, and there’s every reason they should, they need another centre.

For Vegas to trade with us I think you'd have gut the team for peanuts. Vegas is 3 points ahead of us. There is no way they are going to do anything that may help us.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gio was the right choice.

Kylington makes sense with the benefit of hindsight but recall this was also a guy that cleared waivers last year.

Gio probably will be able to recoup them a 1st at the deadline, and that was the right move for them.

I dont think that was the right move at all. I am also not using hindsight here, yet.

Vegas built their team by getting young under used players with potential.

Sure they had a couple of vets too.

Kylington I thought at the time would be a perfect pick for an expansion team.

I thought they were stupid for taking a defenseman so close to retirement.

Sure they maybe able to trade Gio for a late 1st round pick. Yet that pick will take 4 years before coming to the NHL if ever when Kylington was ready.

As for being on waivers? Markstrom was on waivers too, years ago. It is like saying Gio must suck because he was never drafted. Waivers does not always mean a player is a bad player.

Taking Gio was a bad pick. One year left on his contract at a high price tag and a declining older player. There was no upside taking him.

Now using hindsight. It was a bad pick.

You dont build a new team with 38 year old players.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can find franchise players all over, but it’s easier when you draft top-3. And you can’t whiff on those selections.

You MUST have two centres. We have Lindholm - he probably is an O’Reilly level player, no real argument here. But No other centre on this roster is a championship caliber top 2 C.

I get your point, but I think you are discounting talent in general.
Tampa has won two years in a row with Point and Cirelli down the middle. However, they were flanked by Stamkos, Kurcherov, Killorn and Palat. Then they had some ridiculous depth on their bottom 2 lines with Johnson, Gourde and Coleman. Add in Hedman and Vasilevskiy to that mix and you can see why they were so good.

We just don't have that depth and talent in general. I don't think Tre can get us medium/long term solutions for both a #2C (he's been looking for like 4/5 seasons) and a #2RW this year, but Toffolli is a step in the right direction given his age, output and contract if that's the direction we go in. That doesn't mean he shouldn't and isn't still looking for another center, but it seems like that's just not available right now.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by keratosis

For Vegas to trade with us I think you'd have gut the team for peanuts. Vegas is 3 points ahead of us. There is no way they are going to do anything that may help us.

You’re probably right. Regardless.

Monahan and Backlund cannot be counted on as top-2 centres in the playoffs, or or the result will be another 1st round exit.

Hertl, Pavelski, Getzlaf, whoever.

It can’t go unaddressed.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by keratosis

For Vegas to trade with us I think you'd have gut the team for peanuts. Vegas is 3 points ahead of us. There is no way they are going to do anything that may help us.

and in reality they are behind us, if the Flames play even with Vegas the rest of the season they win the Pacific

[Vinny01]

Gio is going to get a 1st + at the deadline. He was always going to be a potential chip. If they had a Vegas like debut it would have been great but they took him k owing he could be flipped.

Kylington is a breakout very few saw coming. Gio was the right pick

[Icon]

I think they should have taken Kylington instead of Gio - just don't think the upside was there at the time compared to the limited number of years they'd have him for. But these picks were still worse...


Jarnkrok from the Preds instead of Duchene or RyJo?...

Twarynski from the Flyers instead of JVR, Voracek or Gost?...

I get the idea of trying to limit your cap hit in the first couple of seasons, but they obviously didn't do that with the Flames pick, so why pass over some of these other guys then?

[ForeverFlameFan]

Gio will only get a 1st if he's 75% retention to a contending team. St. Louis, Carolina, Florida, would be all over that.

Originally Posted by Icon

Gio wasn't even their most bonehead selection (I agree they should have taken Kylington)...


Jarnkrok from the Preds instead of Duchene or RyJo?...

Twarynski from the Flyers instead of JVR, Voracek or Gost?...

I get the idea of trying to limit your cap hit in the first couple of seasons, but they obviously didn't do that with the Flames pick, so why pass over some of these other guys then?

I would say Tarasenko over Dunn was the worst for me. Yes, Dunn is likely the most valued D they have, but with the way they drafted so many D I thought Tarasenko made a lot of sense. A top line of McCann - Gourde - Tarasenko would have had some good potential, and a great way to up the value of Tarasenko.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Gio is going to get a 1st + at the deadline. He was always going to be a potential chip. If they had a Vegas like debut it would have been great but they took him k owing he could be flipped.

Kylington is a breakout very few saw coming. Gio was the right pick

I have my doubts, unless the + is just something stupid that makes the contracts or money work

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Karlsson and Stephenson are not better than Backlund or Monahan. If you must improve centre ice at least get an actual improvement instead of an imagined one.

I’ve never really liked Karlsson, but Stephenson is underrated and underpaid.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

You dont build a new team with 38 year old players.

Totally agree with your whole post. There were some who were vocal about saying Kylington would have been the best pick, and I was also one of them. It might be a hindsight thing for some people, but some people did forecast it. Kylington showed signs that he was on the right track and had a bright future. A lot of players who are late bloomer pass through waivers not because they don't have upside, but just because they are not quite ready.

Gio was the oldest player ever selected by an expansion team and was declining.