[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Yeah, but Tucker Carlson has a team that did the research and he tells me what I need to know. Stuff that the liberal elite try to keep from us.

Lol risky, this thread has too many nut jobs that are likely to actually believe this statement to not tack a solid /s on there. Or green text.

[Southside]

The Ottawa Redblacks jump on board now as well.

https://ottawasun.com/news/postpande...arting-sept-22

[Icantwhisper]

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

[Monahammer]

*sigh*

Edit: What a suitable post signature lol

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Goriders

How much safer am I because some pandering politician tells me I can’t go to a stamps game with 12,000 people at it or a Flames game.

…

Basically I don’t need an idiot to tell me what to do. I’m able to guage risk and make decisions based on that risk. But I guess some people need that in their lives?

You’re missing the point, and I think a lot of people miss the point.

Yes, it’s great to feel that little extra bit safer by having no unvaccinated people around. Sure, wonderful. But restrictions are a means of stopping or limiting a rise in hospitalisations. The more people in hospital, the more stress put on the health care system. A stressed health care system leads to cancelled and delayed surgeries, delayed appointments, reduced access for everyone, etc. Put 1000 vaccinated people in a room, introduce Delta, and you’ve probably got a few breakthrough cases. Put 600 vaccinated people in a room with 400 unvaccinated and do the same thing, and cases are going to be a LOT higher. Sure, it’s great that 600 are vaccinated. But Delta doesn’t really give a #### when there’s 400 unvaccinated in the room ready for infection.

So, yes, being selfish about it, it can seem strange. But your choices are restrictions for everyone, or restrictions for the vaccinated. It’s not to make it safer for YOU, that’s what the vaccine is for. It’s to make it safer for EVERYONE. We’ve just been through a year of this. The only difference is now you’re vaccinated, which means you shouldn’t really have to be restricted… but you’re saying you want the restrictions?

That’s what I don’t get. Restrictions aren’t for fun. They’re to protect the health care system. The vaccinated are being excluded because they’re low risk. And people are seriously advocating being restricted WITH the unvaccinated because it would be “unfair”? Have at it.

Restrictions are coming either way. As a vaccinated person, I’m more than happy to avoid them. You want to sit at home with the unvaccinated? Volunteer to do so.

[bzoo02]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

That's ok that those people can question getting vaccinated all they want.

They just also need to be ok with any restrictions put in place to help protect them, like not being allowed in a stadium, vaccine passports etc. Like you said, it's their choice.

But sadly these are the same people getting sick and bogging down our healthcare system.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

Like what? How covid is still killing people? How the vaccine is safe and effective? What more do they want to see? If maybe they get sick and die? "Hold off on the angioplasty doc, I want to wait and see how this heart attack plays out first..."


Come on, we are well past that as a reasonable excuse.

[GioforPM]

The FDA just gave Pzifer full approval. So that argument is gone (to be replaced by “they rushed the approval”).

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by bzoo02

That's ok that those people can question getting vaccinated all they want.

They just also need to be ok with any restrictions put in place to help protect them, like not being allowed in a stadium, vaccine passports etc. Like you said, it's their choice.

But sadly these are the same people getting sick and bogging down our healthcare system.

I think I'm just tired or reading how stupid everyone who isn't vaccinated is ( I agree it is not a wise choice) and stupid others are for believing the government.
I could always just not read this thread and solve my own issue with all the negativity but it's like a bad car crash, can't look away.
Were 1000 posts in, anyone changed their mind yet?

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Like what? How covid is still killing people? How the vaccine is safe and effective? What more do they want to see? If maybe they get sick and die? "Hold off on the angioplasty doc, I want to wait and see how this heart attack plays out first..."


Come on, we are well past that as a reasonable excuse.

I don't know I'm not one of them, I did see someone on the news some one who said their parents didn't trust it based on Tuskegee and I can respect that. I don't know if that was pandering to the current sentiments or not but it seems like a reasonable excuse if it's something you lived through.
I'm sure there are other excuses that are valid to the people that have them, I'm not so quick to say they should just get over it.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I think I'm just tired or reading how stupid everyone who isn't vaccinated is ( I agree it is not a wise choice) and stupid others are for believing the government.
I could always just not read this thread and solve my own issue with all the negativity but it's like a bad car crash, can't look away.
Were 1000 posts in, anyone changed their mind yet?

Yes, I have fully changed my mind that many people are even redeemable in this argument, and that society will have enough common sense to listen to experts and GET THE VACCINE unless you absolutely cannot.

I no longer believe we have a chance of living without endemic COVID. Too many people who have "questions" about something they can't even begin to hope to understand at the depth they think they do.

[InternationalVillager]

So is it all the hockey teams in Canada now? The Flames need to really get on board here.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

What specific things when people say “I want to see how it plays out” are they concerned about.

When someone makes that statement they are saying Despite all evidence to the contrary I believe that my risk from Covid is less than the risk from the vaccine. So on what basis do they make that statement?

I think the second bolded point is an issue from a communication standpoint but shouldn’t be a concern. Astrazenica is still a good vaccine if an alternative isn’t available and the case rates in your area are above X where x is an age adjusted risk factor for clots vs Covid risk. I don’t believe at any point in time any person who took AZ increased their risk of death. The science got more precise on these cases but the messaging around these changes was very poor.

The masking stuff is people needing to understand implemented policy vs science. Wearing a mask always reduces the risk. The sitting versus walking around vs indoor vs outdoor is policy trying to balance enforcement,
Compliance, practicality and effectiveness.

It frustrates me that people spend time creating reasons not to get a vaccine as opposed to looking for reasons to get a vaccine. I agree that labels don’t help as it entrenches a position.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

So basically you’re okay with how a democracy is supposed to work.

I’m with you.

I figured I might regret opening this thread. Assumption validated.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I think I'm just tired or reading how stupid everyone who isn't vaccinated is ( I agree it is not a wise choice) and stupid others are for believing the government.
I could always just not read this thread and solve my own issue with all the negativity but it's like a bad car crash, can't look away.
Were 1000 posts in, anyone changed their mind yet?

Not as tired as the rest of us having to deal with the consequence of these stupid people.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I am vaccinated and am all for it, however others have a choice not to for whatever reason they chose.
It does seem there is a George W Bush sentiment on here though, you're either with us or against us.
Not everyone who is not getting the vaccine is anti-vax, some are just unsure and want to see how things play out.
I know quite a few people who don't have the vaccine and none are spouting anti-vax nonsense.
Just seems like an awful lot of judgement on here and jumping to conclusions, yes there are some on here that are misguided and others that provide over the top examples but I think we can all look through that and see their point without automatically labeling everyone anti-vax.
There has been enough change in the message that I can see why people have their doubts. Astra was acceptable, now it's not, you can sit down without a mask but you can't walk around, etc..
Just some food for thought and just for the record, I'm not anti-vax, but I am okay with questions being asked and people having doubts.

100% understand your point, and I wholly agree that everyone should have a choice. However, when the requirement for restrictions comes back that is where the difference needs to happen. Vaccinated people shouldn’t be the ones restricted from restaurants, gyms, bars, lounges and sports. It should be the unvaccinated people who experience the restrictions due to the choice they made. As I mentioned in a post previous, choices have consequences.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Quoted for the nagbitude of this supposed government overreach.

Touche

[Cappy]

I dunno guys, I'm really starting to see the slippery slope argument.

Lets say, for example, we allow people to not take recommended precautions to prevent the spread of this virus. then what sort of slippery slope are we getting ourselves into?

Soon, people won't be staying home when they have the flu because it doesn't kill them. Then, people will stop washing their hands, because who cares? showering? teeth brushing, deodorant? all out the window because health is clearly a personal choice.

Where do we stop? why can't i walk my pet tiger unleashed on 17th avenue every sunday? how many tiger deaths have there been in Canada?

Pants? #### pants! what gives you the right to make me wear pants? laws? what are laws? sounds like a restriction of my freedoms.

This is the slippery slope we will be allowing ourselves to slide if we dont immediately start vaccinating people against their will.

_____

If all of that sounds stupid, it's because it is. Slippery slopes are stupid

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re missing the point, and I think a lot of people miss the point.

Yes, it’s great to feel that little extra bit safer by having no unvaccinated people around. Sure, wonderful. But restrictions are a means of stopping or limiting a rise in hospitalisations. The more people in hospital, the more stress put on the health care system. A stressed health care system leads to cancelled and delayed surgeries, delayed appointments, reduced access for everyone, etc. Put 1000 vaccinated people in a room, introduce Delta, and you’ve probably got a few breakthrough cases. Put 600 vaccinated people in a room with 400 unvaccinated and do the same thing, and cases are going to be a LOT higher. Sure, it’s great that 600 are vaccinated. But Delta doesn’t really give a #### when there’s 400 unvaccinated in the room ready for infection.

So, yes, being selfish about it, it can seem strange. But your choices are restrictions for everyone, or restrictions for the vaccinated. It’s not to make it safer for YOU, that’s what the vaccine is for. It’s to make it safer for EVERYONE. We’ve just been through a year of this. The only difference is now you’re vaccinated, which means you shouldn’t really have to be restricted… but you’re saying you want the restrictions?

That’s what I don’t get. Restrictions aren’t for fun. They’re to protect the health care system. The vaccinated are being excluded because they’re low risk. And people are seriously advocating being restricted WITH the unvaccinated because it would be “unfair”? Have at it.

Restrictions are coming either way. As a vaccinated person, I’m more than happy to avoid them. You want to sit at home with the unvaccinated? Volunteer to do so.

In your example, you forgot the time interval. eg. 1000 vaccinated people in a room for 8 hours, 500 will get covid. 1000 unvaccinated people in a room for 1 hour, 500 will get covid. This isn't research that would ever be done, so only anecdotal evidence could be used, but time is a driving factor, which is why I wear a mask if I'm going into an uncontrolled situation.

Also you made me think about masking in the second part of your post. Remember at the beginning of covid, when the message was to protect other people by wearing a mask, and nobody did it? It was only after the messaging change to 'protect yourself by wearing a mask' that people changed their behavior and started wearing them.

100% vaccinations are to protect the health care system. That has been the goal of every policy that we have seen during covid. Getting a vaccination is to protect yourself and the health care system. Since the arrival of Delta, the martyrdom argument is going to fall on deaf ears to anyone that is anti-vaxx or vaccine hesitant. It should stop being used. As with the masking message, this message should be about self preservation.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Lol risky, this thread has too many nut jobs that are likely to actually believe this statement to not tack a solid /s on there. Or green text.

Guess the flip side to that is this thread also probably has its fair share of “nut jobs” that need the CBC to tell them how to put their pants on in the morning. Without dying of course.

Phew.