[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

People are staying out of the hospital right now. This may not be useful but I looked at three periods to see what the increase in hospitalization and ICU admission looked like during the start of wave 2, wave 3 and now.

September 29 to Nov 13 daily cases increased 5.8x from 173 to 1016. Hospitalization increased 3.5x from 58 to 206 and ICU increased 4.6x from 12 to 55.

March 4 to April 20 daily cases increased 4.3x from 402 to 1718. Hospitalization increased 1.9x from 211 to 396 and ICU increased 2.8x from 41 to 114.

July 1 to today cases increased 15.9x from 36 to 571. Hospitalization essentially stayed flat at 110 to 115 and ICU increased 12% from 33 to 37.

The second period shows the impact that vaccination had in the older population who were vaccinated early on. The third period shows the impact that vaccination has had across the general population (minus the younger kids.) It should be noted though that my period three is not exactly comparable to the other two because the other two start at a date where cases began to rise in those waves. I tried to keep the period duration consistent working back from today which took me to July 1. The better comparison would start around July 20 and go to early Sept but that is still 3 weeks out.

We’re at 152 in hospital not 115.

[Poe969]

I know a family of time vaxers and they're just fine. Sure they usually all have the flu and get the odd bout of meassel, mumps, rubella, typhoid fever, diphtheria, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, HPV, meningococcal,pneumococcal, polio, shingles, whooping cough, and tetnus but other than that they're fairly healthy.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

People are staying out of the hospital right now. This may not be useful but I looked at three periods to see what the increase in hospitalization and ICU admission looked like during the start of wave 2, wave 3 and now.

September 29 to Nov 13 daily cases increased 5.8x from 173 to 1016. Hospitalization increased 3.5x from 58 to 206 and ICU increased 4.6x from 12 to 55.

March 4 to April 20 daily cases increased 4.3x from 402 to 1718. Hospitalization increased 1.9x from 211 to 396 and ICU increased 2.8x from 41 to 114.

July 1 to today cases increased 15.9x from 36 to 571. Hospitalization essentially stayed flat at 110 to 115 and ICU increased 12% from 33 to 37.

Those might not be the best comparisons. On July 1st there were still people in hospital and the ICU from the prior wave, which is why the hospital numbers had dropped to about 80 by late July (with ~20 of those in the ICU). So the rate of new admissions is useful to put that in context. And 7-day averages are better for cases than single-day totals.

The simplest would be to look at a similar case level in a prior wave and see what hospitalizations were then. So right now it's:

7-day average: 418
Hospitalized: 152
ICU: 37
7-day average of new admissions: 15.3/day

The closest comparable from the fall wave would be Oct 25th:

7-day average: 416
Hospitalized: 120
ICU: 19
7-day average of new admissions: 8.7/day

Or another way to look at it is the ratio of the 7-day average of new cases to the 7-day average of new admissions (these are per million residents):

Sept 1: 32 cases vs 1.2 new admissions (26.7x)
Oct 1: 34 vs 1.5 (22.7x)
Nov 1: 115 vs 3.4 (33.8x)
Dec 1: 322 vs 12 (26.8x)

And in the 3rd wave:

April 1: 159 vs 5 (31.8x)
May 1: 414 vs 14.1 (29.4x)

Then at the low point of hospitalizations until now:

Jul 22: 13.8 vs 0.4 (34.5x)
Jul 31: 39.6 vs 1.2 (33x)
Aug 7: 60.6 vs 3 (30.3x)
Today: 94.8 vs 3.5 (27x)

So still pretty similar to prior situations where cases were rising (obviously you'd have fewer cases per admission when cases are declining).

[getbak]

This is from today's information for the province of Alberta...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426301962656501761


If we use the vaccination numbers from here (https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...m#vaccinations), we can see that there are currently 2,884,360 people with at least one shot and 31,561 first shots were delivered in the last 14 days.

We can't assume all new cases are vaccine-eligible, so we need to look at the total population of the province, which is 4,421,887. This means there are 1,537,527 unvaccinated people in the province, or 1,569,088 people who are less than 14 days past their first shot (let's call them "unprotected").

There are 2,539,474 people in the province who have received 2 shots. 91,826 of those received their second shot within the last 14 days. This means there are 2,447,648 fully vaccinated Albertans.


To summarize:

• 4,421,887 total population
• 2,447,648 fully vaccinated
• 91,826 within two weeks of second shot
• 405,151 at least two weeks past first shot, but no second shot
• 496,977 partially vaccinated or within 14 days of second shot (add together previous 2 numbers)
• 1,569,088 unvaccinated or within two weeks of first shot

New cases for August 12, 2021:

• 576 total = 0.0130% of total pop.
• 83 fully vaccinated = 0.0034% of fully vaxxed
• 46 partially vaccinated or within 14 days of second shot = 0.0093% of partially vaxxed
• 447 unvaccinated or within 14 days of first shot = 0.0284% of unprotected pop.

Despite making up only 35.5% of the province's population, the "unprotected" group made up 77.6% of the new cases.

While making up 55.4% of the province's population, the fully-protected group made up 14.4% of new cases.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

We’re at 152 in hospital not 115.

In my post hospitalization should say "non ICU hospital". 115 non ICU + 37 ICU = 152 hospitalizations.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, you still have to take the same precautions. And you can still contract it, despite the precautions. But the likelihood of you contracting it goes down substantially if you follow the precautions.

And here's the thing... it also goes down substantially if the people around you are vaccinated.

And... it goes down substantially if you are vaccinated.

The more you reduce the odds, the better, no?

I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m not going to weigh in on whether others should or should not be vaccinated. It’s has been done to death here.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m not going to weigh in on whether others should or should not be vaccinated. It’s Benn done to death here.

But just in case it wasn't clear after all that - you should. You really should.

[14Roman14]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I am wondering if you can quantify "a lot of risk there" on the long term side effects. Posters have provided real data on the short term risks (which are real, but miniscule). Others have pointed out how the vaccine is quick acting and not likely to have any long term effects. At what point would you be satisfied? Are you just going to wait out the 50 years, to see what the long terms affects are, retrospectively?

Posters have stated that long term effects are rare. That they leave the system fast. This may be true with all other vaccines. I am not anti vax. I am fully vaccinated for everything but this. My entire family is vaccinated for everything else.

However there has never been a vaccine ever used for humans that was MRNA and used a spike protein. Nobody can deny this, so is it possible that this one doesn’t leave our systems as fast as other vaccines of our past and nobody knows? If I’m wrong please provide me with an example of an identical vaccine we’ve used in the past and it’s success rate. Also does anyone know why this type of vaccine was used this time instead of tried and tested traditional methods?

Honestly my feeling is by 2023 we should know most data and all information. That will allow the vaccinated masses to get through another flu, different covid strain season and see if the immune system is stronger or weaker against other types of viruses that this vaccine was not targeting. It will allow more studies on fertility, and reproduction including any affects on the fetus of unborn children. It will allow improvements to be made if necessary ensure every aspect has been looked at and for long enough times. I can wait to go to a hockey game or travel and hopefully others will allow me and others like me that time. I do not think the measures in place will work and even though I was vaccinated for everything else before, I never once had a thought while attending a game or a concert that I wonder if everyone here is vaccinated for my safety. That said this has changed our world and how we see it acceptable to treat others, just hopefully if the shoe is on the other foot the people preaching remember how it felt.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

I guess I’m basing it on the fact that I know at least 10 people who have got covid(myself and my wife included) and recovered fully from it with zero issues other than lost time off work and school. I know of one person in my community that passed from covid but he also smoked, drank and did hard drugs most of his life and any illness would have been hard on his system. The cure for covid was stay home and isolate and very few required treatment further than how they treat themselves going through a regular flu. I know of at least two people that took the shot and developed blood clots and died from the vaccine.

If I don’t take the vaccine I have zero percent chance at the side effects from it. If I do then I may or may not minimize my chances of covid(which is not fearful in my opinion) but also open up a new can of worms.

I may be wrong or I may be right. I guess I’m basing it off personal experience as much as possible and feeling that natural immunity has zero side effects and also reduces the chance of reinfection and transmission, but will not let one into a hockey game like vaccine immunity.

What calculations did you use to make your medical decisions?

To decide if Astrazenica was the correct choice I took risk of developing blood clots from the vaccine vs risk of hospitalization from Covid times the likelihood of getting Covid in the 1 month delay. It worked out that taking Astrazenica decreased risk of hospitalization. For vaccination in general I took my age group risk of hospitalization versus the rates of hospitalization from vaccination assuming that choosing to not be vaccinated is choosing to get Covid.

Which means for a 40-49 year old I have a 3/100 chance of hospitalization and a 1/1000 chance of death if I do not get vaccinated. Given the billions of doses given its clear on a short term basis that vaccination is the better choice.

For long term risks I took the history of vaccination into account that vaccines cause short term problems and not long term ones. There just isn’t any mNRA left to cause problems. Along with that I looked at the overall Covid risks and put the 3/100 chance of hospitalizations and unknown amount of long term damage from Covid against the unknown risk from the vaccine long term.

I think when you say if you don’t take the vaccine you have a 0% risk of side affects you miss the other half of the statement that you increase your risk from Covid 10x. So by choosing to not get a vaccine you are assuming that the long term risk of a vaccine is greater than the short term risk of getting Covid. So if you are 30-40 you are making a bet that 1/3000 people will die from the Covid vaccine in order for you to be better off not getting it.

That’s my thought process, probabilities are from the severe outcomes tab on the Alberta website.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Posters have stated that long term effects are rare. That they leave the system fast. This may be true with all other vaccines. I am not anti vax. I am fully vaccinated for everything but this. My entire family is vaccinated for everything else.

However there has never been a vaccine ever used for humans that was MRNA and used a spike protein. Nobody can deny this, so is it possible that this one doesn’t leave our systems as fast as other vaccines of our past and nobody knows? If I’m wrong please provide me with an example of an identical vaccine we’ve used in the past and it’s success rate. Also does anyone know why this type of vaccine was used this time instead of tried and tested traditional methods?

Honestly my feeling is by 2023 we should know most data and all information. That will allow the vaccinated masses to get through another flu, different covid strain season and see if the immune system is stronger or weaker against other types of viruses that this vaccine was not targeting. It will allow more studies on fertility, and reproduction including any affects on the fetus of unborn children. It will allow improvements to be made if necessary ensure every aspect has been looked at and for long enough times. I can wait to go to a hockey game or travel and hopefully others will allow me and others like me that time. I do not think the measures in place will work and even though I was vaccinated for everything else before, I never once had a thought while attending a game or a concert that I wonder if everyone here is vaccinated for my safety. That said this has changed our world and how we see it acceptable to treat others, just hopefully if the shoe is on the other foot the people preaching remember how it felt.

Like all mRNA strands, they are broken down within hours to days afterwards. This is simple biology. There's no way for it to remain in your body longer. But even if that's a concern, there's Astra Zeneca which is a traditional viral vector vaccine. Go for that one instead!

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work by introducing mRNA (messenger RNA) into your muscle cells. The cells make copies of the spike protein and the mRNA is quickly degraded (within a few days). The cell breaks the mRNA up into small harmless pieces. mRNA is very fragile; that's one reason why mRNA vaccines must be so carefully preserved at very low temperatures.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/wh...ke-proteins-go

Secondly, it's ridiculous for you to wait until 2023 when there's nothing new to learn at this point about long-term effects because there isn't any possible mechanism for the vaccine to have any long-term effect...well you know, OTHER than providing memory B-cells and long-term immunity. Any long-term data is already known and this is why the FDA is about to grant permanent approval to the vaccines.

It's just not possible. I would love to explain it to you further, but you'd need to take several biology classes to get up to speed. You'll just have to trust me and the thousands of other scientific experts that know what they're talking about.

Lastly to the last bolded section...come again? Why would that have ANYTHING to do with anything? Each pathogen has a unique response, and unless you imagine that this vaccine actually damages your immune system (it doesn't, and only looney anti-vaxxers believe that), then there's no reasonable explanation for what you are suggesting.

I don't think there's anything left to say to you on this topic. Either be convinced by the mounds of evidence and scientific understanding, or don't. I know when someone cannot be taught, I do it for a living. You have a pre-determined narrative that doesn't match reality, and I've learned that hard-wired beliefs are impossible to change, no matter how much logic and evidence someone presents.

Good luck to you. Hopefully you don't reacquire this virus and get terribly ill because of your poor choices.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Muta

I love being vaccinated. I now tell any anti-vaxxers I meet that the minute I got the vaccine, my mental and physical health drastically improved, I now have more energy, I feel less tired, my gym routines are better, my food tastes better, my skin is healthier, I'm getting multiple promotions at work, I'm winning lotteries, my condo is sunnier and fresher, etc. If they get jabbed, they can improve their lives too.

Your sex life has improved 100%. Did you tell them that?

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Your sex life has improved 100%. Did you tell them that?

200% of 0 is still 0.

[Flashpoint]

I got jabbed and the Oilers were eliminated in 4 straight.

SCIENCE!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

With any luck, the problem of annoying obnoxious unvaccinated idiots will solve itself. Here’s how I’m imagining it, in simpsons gif format.

Spoiler!

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Those might not be the best comparisons. On July 1st there were still people in hospital and the ICU from the prior wave, which is why the hospital numbers had dropped to about 80 by late July (with ~20 of those in the ICU). So the rate of new admissions is useful to put that in context. And 7-day averages are better for cases than single-day totals.

The simplest would be to look at a similar case level in a prior wave and see what hospitalizations were then. So right now it's:

7-day average: 418
Hospitalized: 152
ICU: 37
7-day average of new admissions: 15.3/day

The closest comparable from the fall wave would be Oct 25th:

7-day average: 416
Hospitalized: 120
ICU: 19
7-day average of new admissions: 8.7/day

Or another way to look at it is the ratio of the 7-day average of new cases to the 7-day average of new admissions (these are per million residents):

Sept 1: 32 cases vs 1.2 new admissions (26.7x)
Oct 1: 34 vs 1.5 (22.7x)
Nov 1: 115 vs 3.4 (33.8x)
Dec 1: 322 vs 12 (26.8x)

And in the 3rd wave:

April 1: 159 vs 5 (31.8x)
May 1: 414 vs 14.1 (29.4x)

Then at the low point of hospitalizations until now:

Jul 22: 13.8 vs 0.4 (34.5x)
Jul 31: 39.6 vs 1.2 (33x)
Aug 7: 60.6 vs 3 (30.3x)
Today: 94.8 vs 3.5 (27x)

So still pretty similar to prior situations where cases were rising (obviously you'd have fewer cases per admission when cases are declining).

Great breakdown of the numbers and thank you for all the work that went into it. Maybe someone with talent could list the occupancy rate of the beds being used so we can see how stressed the healthcare system actually is.

This is an interesting read also: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...#comorbidities

[Knut]

Guy literally living under a rock gets the Vaccine. Why can’t you ?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426203745046564865

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Like all mRNA strands, they are broken down within hours to days afterwards. This is simple biology. There's no way for it to remain in your body longer. But even if that's a concern, there's Astra Zeneca which is a traditional viral vector vaccine. Go for that one instead!



https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/wh...ke-proteins-go

Secondly, it's ridiculous for you to wait until 2023 when there's nothing new to learn at this point about long-term effects because there isn't any possible mechanism for the vaccine to have any long-term effect...well you know, OTHER than providing memory B-cells and long-term immunity. Any long-term data is already known and this is why the FDA is about to grant permanent approval to the vaccines.

It's just not possible. I would love to explain it to you further, but you'd need to take several biology classes to get up to speed. You'll just have to trust me and the thousands of other scientific experts that know what they're talking about.

Lastly to the last bolded section...come again? Why would that have ANYTHING to do with anything? Each pathogen has a unique response, and unless you imagine that this vaccine actually damages your immune system (it doesn't, and only looney anti-vaxxers believe that), then there's no reasonable explanation for what you are suggesting.

I don't think there's anything left to say to you on this topic. Either be convinced by the mounds of evidence and scientific understanding, or don't. I know when someone cannot be taught, I do it for a living. You have a pre-determined narrative that doesn't match reality, and I've learned that hard-wired beliefs are impossible to change, no matter how much logic and evidence someone presents.

Good luck to you. Hopefully you don't reacquire this virus and get terribly ill because of your poor choices.

Until you stream a video of this information on rumble.com we can’t take any of this as fact.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Posters have stated that long term effects are rare. That they leave the system fast. This may be true with all other vaccines. I am not anti vax. I am fully vaccinated for everything but this. My entire family is vaccinated for everything else.

However there has never been a vaccine ever used for humans that was MRNA and used a spike protein. Nobody can deny this, so is it possible that this one doesn’t leave our systems as fast as other vaccines of our past and nobody knows? If I’m wrong please provide me with an example of an identical vaccine we’ve used in the past and it’s success rate. Also does anyone know why this type of vaccine was used this time instead of tried and tested traditional methods?

Honestly my feeling is by 2023 we should know most data and all information. That will allow the vaccinated masses to get through another flu, different covid strain season and see if the immune system is stronger or weaker against other types of viruses that this vaccine was not targeting. It will allow more studies on fertility, and reproduction including any affects on the fetus of unborn children. It will allow improvements to be made if necessary ensure every aspect has been looked at and for long enough times. I can wait to go to a hockey game or travel and hopefully others will allow me and others like me that time. I do not think the measures in place will work and even though I was vaccinated for everything else before, I never once had a thought while attending a game or a concert that I wonder if everyone here is vaccinated for my safety. That said this has changed our world and how we see it acceptable to treat others, just hopefully if the shoe is on the other foot the people preaching remember how it felt.

Stop trying to qualify your position and just state it, because we know better.

[Thor]

Vaccines are simply compared to anti-virus on computers, we literally are just updating your anti-virus in your body to deal with new threats.

This is mind-numbingly simple, well understood, and effective with a century of research and data.

[Jaybo]

I’m not a detective but suspect it might not be the jab that killed her…

“The first Albertan to die from a rare blood clot condition linked to a COVID-19 vaccine was turned away from an Edmonton hospital two days before her death, a family friend says.“