[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[Doctorfever]

Personally, I couldn’t care less if the person sitting next to me at a hockey game is vaccinated or not. You still have to take the same precautions as to hopefully not contract or pass on the virus. Just my personal viewpoint. I see that I am probably the minority here.

[Bonded]

Anti-vaxxers would have found another excuse but I wish the drug companies and media would not have pushed the story about how quickly the vaccines were made and rolled out. It was supposed to be good news to show the system working but it gave the anti-vaxxers another arrow in their quiver of misinformation and confusion.
It wouldn't have been as sexy of a headline but if the headlines were pushed that it took 30 years of development then at least that is one excuse gone off the bat.

[14Roman14]

Originally Posted by JBR

If you don't take it, 100% chance you don't get side effects from it - true - but rather than basing it on the experience of you and a dozen others you know - use a larger sample size. If you want to use numbers to make the decision for you:

As of August 6 - 50.25 million doses given in Canada and 3063 serious adverse affects (0.006%).

Don't take it - 100% chance of no serious side effects
Take it - 99.994% chance of no serious side effects.

Want to include all side effects, including serious and non-serious... it's 0.018%. Still pretty good odds compared to the 1.84% death rate from Covid in Canada.

Yes, those are very good numbers, and I appreciate you posting them.
Mind you they are short term side effects. I think most are concerned with long term side effects which can not possibly be known yet. Trust me, I very much hope that there are none but until it is known for sure I feel like there is still a lot of risk there.

[djsFlames]

Well I'm sold. In fact it would be great it if some posters here voluntarily went and contracted the virus to show us just how harmless it is. (would also make you less of a walking risk to others after the fact)

Fingers crossed your neighborhood doctor friends are right.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Yes, those are very good numbers, and I appreciate you posting them.
Mind you they are short term side effects. I think most are concerned with long term side effects which can not possibly be known yet. Trust me, I very much hope that there are none but until it is known for sure I feel like there is still a lot of risk there.

The long term side effect here is a massive economic drag on society for covering health care costs for tens of thousands of the hospitalized unvaccinated.

[Hemi-Cuda]

nm

[cam_wmh]

The costs of being stupid, are such a societal hindrance. Private business can abstain from them, as it's their right. I applaud the Jets.

[bzoo02]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Yes, those are very good numbers, and I appreciate you posting them.

Mind you they are short term side effects. I think most are concerned with long term side effects which can not possibly be known yet. Trust me, I very much hope that there are none but until it is known for sure I feel like there is still a lot of risk there.

From a recent study from the University of Alabama:

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item...covid-vaccines

Don't want to read it? Let me sum up:
There aren't any yet and likely won't be any since it's a vaccine and not medicine. Vaccines are fast acting and out of your system within two weeks, where as exposure to medicine builds up slowly over time.

It's most likely that we've seen all and any effects the vaccines have.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

And I agree restrictive measures are likely likely come back, which wouldn't be the case if people took the silver ticket and stayed out of the hospital.

People are staying out of the hospital right now. This may not be useful but I looked at three periods to see what the increase in hospitalization and ICU admission looked like during the start of wave 2, wave 3 and now.

September 29 to Nov 13 daily cases increased 5.8x from 173 to 1016. Hospitalization increased 3.5x from 58 to 206 and ICU increased 4.6x from 12 to 55.

March 4 to April 20 daily cases increased 4.3x from 402 to 1718. Hospitalization increased 1.9x from 211 to 396 and ICU increased 2.8x from 41 to 114.

July 1 to today cases increased 15.9x from 36 to 571. Hospitalization essentially stayed flat at 110 to 115 and ICU increased 12% from 33 to 37.

The second period shows the impact that vaccination had in the older population who were vaccinated early on. The third period shows the impact that vaccination has had across the general population (minus the younger kids.) It should be noted though that my period three is not exactly comparable to the other two because the other two start at a date where cases began to rise in those waves. I tried to keep the period duration consistent working back from today which took me to July 1. The better comparison would start around July 20 and go to early Sept but that is still 3 weeks out.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

That was the other guy with a rich fantasy life.

So the other guy knew one of the 3 people who died from blood clots and this guy knows 2 of the people who died from blood clots. What are the chances that one internet forum has two posters who are anti-vax and had those people as friends in their lives.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by 14Roman14

Yes, those are very good numbers, and I appreciate you posting them.
Mind you they are short term side effects. I think most are concerned with long term side effects which can not possibly be known yet. Trust me, I very much hope that there are none but until it is known for sure I feel like there is still a lot of risk there.

I am wondering if you can quantify "a lot of risk there" on the long term side effects. Posters have provided real data on the short term risks (which are real, but miniscule). Others have pointed out how the vaccine is quick acting and not likely to have any long term effects. At what point would you be satisfied? Are you just going to wait out the 50 years, to see what the long terms affects are, retrospectively?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So the other guy knew one of the 3 people who died from blood clots and this guy knows 2 of the people who died from blood clots. What are the chances that one internet forum has two posters who are anti-vax and had those people as friends in their lives.

Stats don't matter to anti-vaxxers, they won't understand why their claim is so unbelievable

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Interesting that the NHL is requiring anyone with close contact to the teams to be vaccinated but it won't, or at least it hasn't yet, mandated that players have to be vaccinated.

Not really. In theory it could because they are worried some stars will walk but I am guessing they could void their contracts but it is most likely because the players are unionized and no other staff was.

[djsFlames]

Anti vaxxers speaking about risks is precious.

They don't care about health risks as much as they do about being right.

These people are true snowflakes. And I've always hated that term.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Interesting that the NHL is requiring anyone with close contact to the teams to be vaccinated but it won't, or at least it hasn't yet, mandated that players have to be vaccinated.

As noted in the second tweet, protocols involving players have not yet been finalized. Presumably anything they require is going to need buy-in from the NHLPA.

That said, has any professional sports league mandated it's players all be vaccinated? I'm not aware of any...

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Personally, I could care less if the person sitting next to me at a hockey game is vaccinated or not. You still have to take the same precautions as to hopefully not contract or pass on the virus. Just my personal viewpoint. I see that I am probably the minority here.

You could care less or you couldn't care less?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

You could care less or you couldn't care less?

Couldn’t.

My bad.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

People are staying out of the hospital right now. This may not be useful but I looked at three periods to see what the increase in hospitalization and ICU admission looked like during the start of wave 2, wave 3 and now.

Of the 6952 new cases since July 1st 42% are from the past 7 days. At this point there's isn't much confidence that we'll avoid a big spike in hospitalizations.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Personally, I couldn’t care less if the person sitting next to me at a hockey game is vaccinated or not. You still have to take the same precautions as to hopefully not contract or pass on the virus. Just my personal viewpoint. I see that I am probably the minority here.

Yes, you still have to take the same precautions. And you can still contract it, despite the precautions. But the likelihood of you contracting it goes down substantially if you follow the precautions.

And here's the thing... it also goes down substantially if the people around you are vaccinated.

And... it goes down substantially if you are vaccinated.

The more you reduce the odds, the better, no?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by bzoo02

From a recent study from the University of Alabama:

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item...covid-vaccines

Don't want to read it? Let me sum up:
There aren't any yet and likely won't be any since it's a vaccine and not medicine. Vaccines are fast acting and out of your system within two weeks, where as exposure to medicine builds up slowly over time.

It's most likely that we've seen all and any effects the vaccines have.

I would strengthen that to "virtually 100% certain" that we've seen all effects of the vaccine, at least ones common enough to worry about (anything can have a 1 in a million side effect). There's simply no plausible mechanism whereby there would be long-term effects that are completely undetectable in the first 1.5 years.

And whatever tiny, tiny chance of there is of something unexpected happening years down the line, that's not something that would ever be revealed in any normal vaccine trial anyway (they're normally a couple of years, not decades). So that's simply an antivax/anti medicine position, not hesitancy about this specific vaccine.